Article 5132 of alt.sys.pdp10: Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!netcom2!alderson From: alderson@netcom2.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) Subject: Re: Multiple stupid TOPS-10 questions... In-Reply-To: Daniel Seagraves's message of Mon, 17 May 1999 12:21:21 -0500 Message-ID: Sender: alderson@netcom2.netcom.com Reply-To: alderson@netcom.com Organization: NETCOM On-line services References: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 00:47:48 GMT Lines: 41 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:5132 In article Daniel Seagraves writes: >A few stupid TOPS-10 questions... >First, how was TOPS-10 installed on a clean KL? What I know so far is that >one way or another the Monitor gets loaded into memory, and it knows how to >format disks. But then what? The PDP-11 frontend is booted from (2 8-inch) floppies to run RSX-20F. One of the .TSK files is a KL boot program that knows how to talk to magtape. This program is loaded via the DTE into main memory and started. The boot tape, in BACKUP format, is read to find the monitor, which is loaded into memory. One of the options in a newly started monitor is to inscribe a filesystem onto a disk, and this is done next. Next, the BACKUP program is executed from the boot tape (being file 2 on the tape; I was never quite sure what the program in file 1 did), to restore all the contents of file 3 to the new filesystem. >Second question - Booting the KL in the first place. >Did it RIM off a device, or did KLDCP/RSX20F feed a bootstrap to the >machine? Answered above. >(About KLDCP/RSX20F - Are these interchangeable?) No. KLDCP was an older program that ran from paper tape; I know that there were KLs that used it, but I never booted one myself. >Third question - Can you use a TOPS-20 to build a TOPS-10? >(Specifically, can I make Toad build a TOPS-10 monitor so I can screw with >it?) Of course. How do you think *we* did it? ;-) -- Rich Alderson Last LOTS Tops-20 Systems Programmer, 1984-1991 Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170) last name @ XKL dot COM Chief systems administrator, XKL LLC, 1998-now Article 5134 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!nntp1.ba.best.com!not-for-mail From: inwap@best.com (Joe Smith) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Multiple stupid TOPS-10 questions... Date: 18 May 1999 01:47:08 -0700 Organization: Chez Inwap Message-ID: <7hr9ec$prs$1@shell3.ba.best.com> References: Lines: 78 NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 927017234 216 inwap@206.184.139.134 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:5134 In article , Richard M. Alderson III wrote: >In article >Daniel Seagraves writes: > >>A few stupid TOPS-10 questions... > >>First, how was TOPS-10 installed on a clean KL? What I know so far is that >>one way or another the Monitor gets loaded into memory, and it knows how to >>format disks. But then what? > >The PDP-11 frontend is booted from (2 8-inch) floppies to run RSX-20F. One of >the .TSK files is a KL boot program that knows how to talk to magtape. This >program is loaded via the DTE into main memory and started. The PDP-11 frontend is booted from a pair of DECtapes on a KL models 1080 and 1090. Originally, the front end ran a program loader called KLDCP (KL Diagnostics Control Program, I think). Later on, the program loader was replace with a PDP-11 operating system, RSX-20F. On a fresh install, the sequence was: 1) Load microcode into the KL from DECtape or 8-inch floppy. 2) Load DDRPI into the -10, run it to do a low-level format of the RP04 or RP06 packs. (Convert the packs from IBM 3330-II format to 36-bit format.) 3) Load BOOT to read SYSTEM.EXE from 1/2-inch tape or another disk. >The boot tape, in BACKUP format, is read to find the monitor, which is loaded >into memory. One of the options in a newly started monitor is to inscribe a >filesystem onto a disk, and this is done next. Next, the BACKUP program is >executed from the boot tape (being file 2 on the tape; I was never quite sure >what the program in file 1 did), to restore all the contents of file 3 to the >new filesystem. There were two copies of BACKUP.EXE on the tape, in case the first one got a read error. On the KS-2020, the first file on the tape was the KS-10 microcode. Then SYSTEM.EXE, BACKUP.EXE, BACKUP.EXE, and a full save in BACKUP format. >>Second question - Booting the KL in the first place. >>Did it RIM off a device, or did KLDCP/RSX20F feed a bootstrap to the >>machine? > >Answered above. Inside the Monitor, there was a section called the "ONCE dialog", which had the code for defining disk structures. After leaving ONCE, that section of physical memory would be zeroed out and made available for user programs. Inside of ONCE, you could dissolve an existing disk structure, define a new one (multiple disk packs comprising a single structure), or REFRESH an existing structure. REFRESH was a high-level format; the HOME blocks were rewritten, a new MFD created (with [1,1].UFD, [1,2].UFD, [1,3].UFD, [1,4].UFD, [1,5].UFD, [2,5].UFD, [3,3].UFD). Inside [1,4] were the initial system files, HOME.SYS, SAT.SYS, and FE.SYS. The latter was a collection of consecutive blocks reserved for the console front end. Once FE.SYS was created, the front end program (KLDCP or RSX-20F) would copy the entire contents of the DECtape or floppies to it. At power-up, the console PDP-11 would boot itself from the disk, then automatically start executing a script of KLDCP or RXS-20F commands to reset the KL, load its microcode, load its boot loader, and start it. >>(About KLDCP/RSX20F - Are these interchangeable?) > >No. KLDCP was an older program that ran from paper tape; I know that there >were KLs that used it, but I never booted one myself. At a very low level, they were functionally interchangeable. KLDCP ran from DECtape or floppy, not paper tape. At Tymshare, we continued running KLDCP off of DECtape long after RSX-20F came out, because RSX-20F did not provide any additional functionality that TYMCOM-X could use. -Joe -- INWAP.COM is Joe Smith, Sally Smith and our cat Murdock. (The O'Hallorans and their cats moved to http://www.tyedye.org/ Nov-98.) See http://www.inwap.com/ for PDP-10, "ReBoot", "Shadow Raiders"/"War Planets" Article 6166 of alt.sys.pdp10: From: Pat Barron Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Questions about installing TOPS-20 Date: 12 Nov 1999 14:21:51 GMT Organization: Transarc Corporation Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: smithfield.transarc.ibm.com Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!dallas-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.lava.net!bonaparte.pixi.com!news.netenterprise.net!abq.news.ans.net!news-w.ans.net!news.chips.ibm.com!newsfeed.btv.ibm.com!newshost.transarc.com!pat Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:6166 I'm hoping that someone might be able to answer some questions that I have .... 1) What is contained in a TOPS-20 installation kit? That is, how many tapes, and what is on them (in general). 2) What is the structure of a TOPS-20 installation tape? Specifically, a KS10 installation tape. I'm looking for a description like "The tape consists of a boot block, followed by a standlone restore image, followed by a DUMPER image of the boot structure ...", etc. 3) Can anyone give me a quick overview of the process of installing TOPS-20 on a KS10? I have some TOPS-20 documentation around, but that info does not seem to be included in the manuals that I have. Thanks, --Pat.