Article 1995 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.best.com!news1.best.com!news.aimnet.com!netserv.com!news.clark.net!world1.bawave.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!news.bu.edu!csa!budd From: budd@csa.bu.edu (Phil Budne) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: How big were they? Followup-To: alt.sys.pdp10 Date: 26 Jun 1996 05:18:55 GMT Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA Lines: 333 Message-ID: <4qqh7v$kb5@news.bu.edu> References: <4q9edb$dn3@ninja.zso.dec.com> <4qkn68$ae9@dns.plano.net> <31ce2ba6.161924404@netnews.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: csa.bu.edu In article , Dan Murphy wrote: >In article <31ce2ba6.161924404@netnews.worldnet.att.net> > david.razler@postoffice.worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler) writes: > > >> 1971 KA-10, 256K core, 2x RP-02 2MWord disk packs , >> 8X TU-55, HS > > Was an RP02 really only 2 Mwords?? > > I realized recently that I couldn't actually remember the > capacities of the various RP disk packs. Who recalls the size of > RP04 and RP06 packs? > > Whatever it was, it seemed big at the time... > > > dlm An RP02 was about 20MB, and '03 40MB (about one 9-track 1600 tape); An RP04 was about 80MB and the RP06 was about 160MB (about one 6250 tape). Here is my collection of info on DEC disks; ================================================================ DEC disk history Started 1/94 -pb $Id: dec.disks,v 1.5 1996/01/12 22:55:48 phil Exp phil $ The focus is on disks sold for use on DEC systems (whether manufactured by DEC or not) not general market peripherals (ie; the DSP SCSI line) manufactured by DEC. Capacity is approx, (1K=1024 1M=1024K) some formatted, some unformatted Geometry is (usually) physical (counts alternate sec & cyl) ~ on cylinder counts means average (zone bit recorded disk) Transfer rates are (usually) avg sustainted rates to/from media. 1K=1000, 1M=1000K, b=bits, B=8-bit bytes. All hard disks 3600 rpm unless noted Wanted: corrections & additions!! seek times (avg/min/max) rotational latency transfer rate origal mfgr & designation for non-dec disks interface type (ie; Massbus, MSCP) or controller type year of introduction (dec or orig mfgr) encoding?? bpi?? Old interfaces (removable unless noted) ======================================= disk cap. sec/trk trk/cyl cyl notes (surf) ================ VAX730 IDC R80 121M 31 14 559 dec built; winchester (RA80 HDA) ================ via PDP-11 RK-11, PDP-8 RK8 RK02 1.2M ? ? ? Diablo model 30 low density RK03 2.5M ? ? ? Diablo model 30 high density RK05(J) 2.5M 12 2 203 1500rpm; RK03 cartridge; RK8 max xfer 1.44Mb/s (8.32us/wd) seek: 50ms/10ms/85ms RK05F 5M 12 2 203 1500rpm; fixed rk05; 2xRK05 to s/w ================ RK06 13M 22 3 411 2400rpm; dec built RK07 27M 22 3 815 2400rpm; dec built; seek: 36.5ms avg ================ RL01 5.2M 40 2 256 2400rpm; 256B/sect; dec built; pack xfer 4.1Mb/s; lat=12.5ms seek (ms) 55avg/15min/100max RL02 10M 40 2 512 2400rpm; 512B/sect; dec built; pack ================ via PDP-10 RA10 RB10 20-100M 11 varied "Giant Bryant" disk (aka "MD10" Moby Disk???) 1200rpm? av seek 110ms? ================ via PDP-10 RC10; RD10 2.5M 20 2 100 Burroughs disk 1800(1735)rpm; 32*36b/sect fixed head; lat=17.6ms; xfer=2.7Mb/s total of 512,000 36-bit words (4000 128-word blocks) RM10B 2.07M 30 1 90 Bryant drum; 64*36b/sect; xfer 7.9Mb/s @60Hz: 3450rpm, lat8.8ms @50Hz: 2870rpm, lat10.6ms total of 345,600 36-bit words (2700 128-word blocks) Drum surface was conical, and mounted vertically. ================ fixed head RF/RS11 512K -- 1 128 1800rpm; fixed head RS08 256KW -- 1 128 PDP-8 fixed head disk (RF08 ctrlr) word addressable; 2KW tracks @60Hz: xfer 16us/wd access 16.9ms/250us/33.6ms @50Hz: xfer 19.2us/wd access 20.3ms/320us/40.3ms max density 1100BPI, NRZI recording DF32 32KW -- 1 16 PDP-8 fixed head disk word addressable; 2KW tracks @60Hz: xfer 32us/wd, avg access 16.67ms @50Hz: xfer 39us/wd, avg access 20ms max density 1100BPI, NRZI recording 10" rack 10.5" high ================ via PDP-10 RP10; PDP-11 RP-11 RP01 5M 5 10 203 2400rpm; Memorex; pack [never released] seek (ms) 50avg/20min/80max; lat13.7ms xfer=837Kb/s RP02 20M 10 20 203 2400rpm; Memorex 660; pack seek (ms) 50avg/20min/80max; lat13.1ms xfer=1.8Mb/s. $25k c. 1969 RP03 40M 10 20 400 2400rpm; Memorex; pack Massbus ======= disk cap. sec/trk trk/cyl cyl notes RP04 83M 20 19 411 pack; Sperry 3500rpm? av seek 27ms? RP05 83M 20 19 411 pack; Memorex; field upgradable to RP06 RP06 176M 20 19 815 pack; ISS/Memorex seek 30ms (avg); xfer=825KB/s 3500rpm? RP04/RP06 has 22*512-byte blocks (16-bit) or 20*576-byte blocks (18-bit) RP07 504M 50(30?) 32 630 ISS/Sperry; winchester seek 23ms (avg); xfer=2.3MB/s RP20 929M 24(25?) 30 1119(750?) two fixed spindles (on DX20?) seek 25ms (avg); xfer=1.3MB/s 3500 rpm? (840000 128*36b blocks) RS03 512K 64 1 64 fixed head; 128B/sector RS04/5 1M 64(32?) 1 64 fixed head; 256B/sector 6ms access; spiral read 32 blks/trk 2048 blks/cyl? 3500rpm? RM02 65M 32 5 823 pack; CDC 9762; 2400 rpm [phys 80M?] RM03 65M 32 5 823 pack; CDC 9762 [phys 80M?] RM05 256M 32 19 823 pack; CDC 9766 RM06 ? RM80 124M 32 14 559 winchester (RA80 HDA) ML11A varies - - - solid-state (ram) disk; 2MB/s xfer 1-31 arrays of 512 or 2048 blocks ea MSCP ==== disk cap. sec/trk trk/cyl cyl notes RA60 205M 42 4 2382 pack; seek 42 ms (avg); xfer=2.1MB/s 3500 rpm? === 5.25" FH? RA70 280M 33 11 1507 RA71 684M 51 14 1915 RA72 1G 51 20 1915 RA73 2G 70 21 2667 === 19" RA80 124M 31 14 546 dec; winchester; 3500 rpm? RA81 446M 51 14 1248 dec; winchester; 3500 rpm? seek 28 ms (avg); xfer=2.3MB/s RA82 608M 57 15 1423 dec; winchester RA90 1.2G 69 13 2649 RA92 1.5G 69 13 3279 RC25 25M*2 42 4 302 MSCP?? "LESI" interface?? 1 fixed, 1 removable; CDC9457??? Floppy ================================================================ disk cap. sec/trk trk/cyl cyl notes RX01 256K 26 1 77 8" SSSD (IBM soft-sectored) 128B/sect; 360rpm xfer 250Kb/s; lat 83ms seek (ms) 405avg/30min/790max RX02 512K 26 1 77 8" SSDD (non-standard) 256B/sect; 360rpm RX03 1M 26 2 77 8" DSDD (non-standard) -- not released RX22 RX23 3.5" SCSI high 1.4M 18 2 80 double 720K 9 2 80 single 360K 9 2 40 RX26 3.5" SCSI extra 2.8M 36 2 80 high 1.4M 18 2 80 double 720K 9 2 80 single 360K 9 2 40 RX33 5.25" Teac FD55-GFR-17U extra 1.2M 15 2 80 high 720K 9 2 80 DSDD double 400K 10 1 80 SSDD (RX50 compat?) single 360K 9 2 40 DSSD RX50 400K 10 1 80 5.25" single sided, FM encoding MFM "ST506/412 interface" (on RQDX{1,2,3}) ========================================== disk cap. sec/trk trk/cyl cyl notes === 5.25" FH RD50 5M 17 4 153 Seagate ST506 seek 85/3?/?? RD51 10M 17 4 306 Seagate ST412 seek 85/16.6?/?? RD52 31M 18 7 480 Quantum 540 / ATASI 3046 (also Evotek?) RD53 71M 18 8 1024? Microp 1325 (or 1335) w/ jumper at J7 RD54 156M 17 15 1225 Maxtor XT-2190D === 5.25" HH RD31 20M 17 4 615 ST225 seek (ms) 65/20/150 RD32 40M 17 6 820 ST251(-1*) seek 40(28*)/8/70 ST277R(-1*) [MFM format] 40(28*)/8/70 RD33 71M Microscience HH-1090 [Never released] SMD disks popular on VAXen (Winchesters unless noted) ===================================================== disk cap. sec/trk trk/cyl cyl notes A9300 248M 32 19 815 Ampex 9300; removable A330 262M 32 16 1024 Ampex Capricorn 330 CDC9720 275M 48 10 1147 CDC9730 268M 32 10 823 removable CDC9762 65M 32 5 823 removable; (also RM03) [phys 80M?] CDC9766 256M 32 19 823 removable; (also RM05) CDC9775 839M 32 40 843 M160 132M 32 10 823 Fujitsu 160 M2351 337M 46 20 842 Fujitsu Eagle 19" M2351A 337M 48 20 842 Fujitsu Eagle 19" M2361 549M 64 20 842 Fujitsu Super Eagle 19" M2361A 549M 68 20 842 Fujitsu Super Eagle 19" NEC800 800M 66 23 850 NEC2363 1G 64 27 1024 SCSI disks (Winchesters unless noted) ===================================== disk cap. sec/trk trk/cyl cyl notes === 5.25" FH RZ55 325M Micropolis 1578-15 or maxtor xt-4380sb2? RZ55L RZ56 650M 54 15 1632 Micropolis 1588-15 RZ56L RZ57 1.01G 71 15 1925 Micropolis 1598-15 RZ57I RZ57L RZ58 1.3G 85~ 15 2117 5400rpm? Micropolis 1908? RZ59 8.9G 193 18 5111 === 5.25" FH? RZ72 RZ73 2.0G 71 21 2621 RZ74 3.57G 67~ 25 4165 === 3.5" HH? RZ22 51M 33 4 776 Conner CP350 RZ23 102M 33 8 776 Conner CP3100-1 RZ23L 118M 39~ 4 1524 RZ24 205M 38 8 1348 Conner CP3200; 3500rpm? RZ24L 240M 66~ 8 1818 Quantum LPS-240S? RZ25 416M 62 9 1492 RZ25L 523M 79~ 8 1891 RZ26 1.05G 57 14 2570 5400rpm? RZ27 1.6G 143~ 16 1366 RZ28 2.1G 99~ 16 2595 DEC manufactured RZ28B 2.1G 82~ 19 2626 Seagate ST12400N; 5411 rpm; seek 10/2/22 RZ29 4.2G 113~ 20 3720 Quantum? ================ 5" HH? RZ31 RZ33 ?? RZ35 832M 57 14 2086 ================ CD-ROM RRD40 LMS CM 210 RRD42 Sony CDU-541 ================ ???? RWZ01 Solid-state disks (SCSI?) ========================= "disk" cap. sec/trk trk/cyl cyl notes EZ51 104M 33 9 776 EZ54 418M 62 10 1492 EZ58 835M 20 10 8353 Article 6382 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail From: Rich Alderson Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: RRD40/45/50 Drive Gemetries, etc.. Date: 16 Oct 2001 22:21:18 -0400 Organization: Systems Administration, XKL LLC, Redmond WA 98052 Lines: 15 Sender: alderson+news@panix1.panix.com Message-ID: References: <3BCB5FBC.28694F08@ins-msi.com> <9qh7uu02hll@drn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1003285282 11928 166.84.1.1 (17 Oct 2001 02:21:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Oct 2001 02:21:22 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:6382 alt.sys.pdp11:2640 comp.sys.dec:6949 Tim Shoppa writes: > For anyone doing MSCP-type emulation for PDP-10's (what, you could hook up > RA80's and RA60's to the PDP-10 equivalent of an HSC? I've only seen > pictures of these in mid-80's Systems and Options catalog) you may have to > set the 576-byte-sector bits in the controller and unit word flags. I don't > even know if the -10 can "see" these bits or if they're all hidden on the > other side of the CI. RA60 and RA81 only, on HSC-50 only. 18-bit HDAs could be field-formatted to 16-bit, but not the reverse (which is to say, 576-bit vs. 512-bit sectors). -- Rich Alderson alderson+news@panix.com "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." --Death, of the Endless Article 6375 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn From: Tim Shoppa Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.sys.dec Subject: Re: RRD40/45/50 Drive Gemetries, etc.. Date: 16 Oct 2001 08:07:20 -0700 Organization: Trailing-Edge Technologies Lines: 99 Message-ID: <9qhif80bld@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3BCB5FBC.28694F08@ins-msi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-504.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:6375 alt.sys.pdp11:2637 comp.sys.dec:6939 In article , sword7@speakeasy.org says... >cylinders. All are computed by multiply into total LBNs. User total LBNs >are difference from total physical LBNs. Why difference between physical >total LBNs and user-accessible total LBNs?? The difference are the LBN's used for bad-block replacement and the replacement table. >Check information on >page C-1 (RXQD3 user's manual). Does groups mean heads? If not, can you >explain me that? "Group size" means "tracks per cylinder" in my interpretation. >Why 10 units that VMB scanned but RXQD3 allows only 4 units each >controller? The RQDX3 isn't the only (T)MSCP controller out there. There are non-DEC controllers that support up to 16 units per controller. As far as "known" DEC controllers go, there are also (from various listings and sources, and consolidated in the DUSTAT sources): MSCTBL: TBLENT 1. , TBLENT 2. , TBLENT 3. , TBLENT 4. , TBLENT 5. , TBLENT 6. , TBLENT 7. , TBLENT 8. , TBLENT 9. ,;Actually, ancient TUK50's use this too. TBLENT 10. , ;11. is unassigned TBLENT 12. , TBLENT 13. , TBLENT 14. , TBLENT 15. , TBLENT 16. , ;17. is unassigned TBLENT 18. , TBLENT 19. , TBLENT 20. , ; KFQSAs are an unusual beast. While the "disk" controller will report 21. ; at the end of step 4, it might report 96., 97., or some other ID later on ; since the controller ID actually depends on what type of disk it is. This ; also goes for the tape connections. So, this is why KFQSA devices appear ; to be listed twice; once under KFQSA, and once under the disk type itself. ; I've never seen a RT-11 system with a KFQSA, but I think it should work! TDS TBLENT 21. , TBLENT 22. , TBLENT 23. , TBLENT 24. , TBLENT 25. , ;26. is unassigned TBLENT 27. , ;28. is reserved TBLENT 29. , TBLENT 30. , TBLENT 31. , TBLENT 32. , TBLENT 33. , TBLENT 34. , TBLENT 35. , ;36. - 38. are unassigned TBLENT 39. , TBLENT 40. , TBLENT 41. , TBLENT 42. , ;43. - 44. are unassigned TBLENT 45. , ;46. - 64. are unassigned TBLENT 65., TBLENT 66., ;67. - 95. are unassigned TBLENT 96. , TBLENT 97. , TBLENT 98. , TBLENT 99. , TBLENT 100. , TBLENT 101. , TBLENT 102. , TBLENT 103. , ;RSTS/E sources say this is a TF70L TBLENT 104. , TBLENT 105. , TBLENT 106. , ;107.is unannounced TBLENT 108. , TBLENT 109. , TBLENT 110. , ;111. is unannounced TBLENT 112. , ;113. is unassigned TBLENT 114. , ;115. - 116. are unassigned TBLENT 117. , TBLENT 118. , Tim.