Article 2707 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!panix!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Good news! TOPS-20 v4.1 booted successfully Date: 20 Dec 2000 01:27:46 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 88 Message-ID: <91p1ui$qd7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <853dfrpl0z.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <91n7su$109j$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 977275666 27047 128.59.39.2 (20 Dec 2000 01:27:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Dec 2000 01:27:46 GMT Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:2707 In article , Rich Alderson wrote: : inwap@best.com (Joe Smith) writes: : > What command do I give to a Linux FTP client to get a verbose directory : > listing from TOPS20? DIR, LIST and NLIST all return names only; no dates. : : NONE of the above. : : Verbose directory listings in the Tops-20 FTP server and client are : implemented via the STAT command, as follows: : : 1. The client issues "STAT *.*" : 2. The server returns a list of all the files in the remote directory : 3. The client CDRs down the list, issuing "STAT .." for each : file on the list : 4. The server returns verbose data for the file in question : 5. The client formats the verbose data and outputs it to the user. : : I don't know why it was done this way; it appears to be a holdover from TENEX : on the ARPANET. : : Perhaps someone should smarten up the Unix ftp clients... : Done: C-Kermit>ftp ? Hostname; or FTP command, one of the following: account chmod help open rename system append close idle options reset type bye delete mget put rmdir umask cd directory mkdir pwd site up cdup features modtime quote size user check get mput reget status vdirectory C-Kermit>help ftp vdirectory Syntax: FTP VDIRECTORY [ filespec ] Asks the server to send a directory listing of the files that match the given filespec, or if none is given, all the files in its current directory. VDIRECTORY is needed for getting verbose directory listings from certain FTP servers, such as on TOPS-20. Try it if FTP DIRECTORY lists only filenames without details. C-Kermit>ftp cu20b.arpa ; (not the real hostname) Name (cu20b.arpa:fdc): 331 User name ok. Password, please. Password: 230- User FDC, job 13, logged in at 230- Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:00:57 -0800 (PST). 230 Remote system type is TOPS20. Default transfer mode is TEXT ("ASCII") C-Kermit>ftp dir CU20B: CKERMIT.DIRECTORY.1 CKERMIT2.TXT.1 GNUEMACS.INIT.1 KERMIT.DIRECTORY.1 LOGIN.CMD.1 226 Transfer completed. C-Kermit>ftp vdir CU20B:CKERMIT.DIRECTORY.1;P20200;A,0,15-Jan-1999 13:41:26-PST, 15-Jan-1999 13:41:27-PST,14-Sep-1999 17:49:06-PDT,FDC,FDC CU20B:CKERMIT2.TXT.1;P775200;A,166,15-Jan-1999 13:43:17-PST,15-Jan-1999 13:43:17-PST,15-Jan-1999 14:35:06-PST,FDC,FDC CU20B:GNUEMACS.INIT.1;P775200;A,8,25-Jan-1997 10:46:54-PST,25-Jan-1997 10:46:54-PST,25-Jan-1997 10:49:34-PST,FDC,FDC CU20B:KERMIT.DIRECTORY.1;P20200;A,0,25-Jan-1997 10:45:59-PST,25-Jan-1997 10:45:59-PST,14-Sep-1999 17:49:07-PDT,FDC,FDC CU20B:LOGIN.CMD.1;P775200;A,1,25-Jan-1997 10:43:05-PST,25-Jan-1997 10:43:05-PST, 8-Sep-2000 16:15:37-PDT,FDC,FDC C-Kermit> Yes, C-Kermit now includes an FTP client: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ck71.html The current test version (Alpha.01) pointed to by the URL above doesn't have the FTP VDIRECTORY command in it, but by working copy does, and so Alpha.02 will have it. I'll try to remember to post an announcement here. C-Kermit is available for UNIX (all kinds), VMS, and several other OS families. The Windows version is called Kermit 95. So far only the UNIX and Windows versions are getting FTP clients. (And no, it doesn't do TYPE TENEX -- does anybody care?) - Frank P.S. TOPS-20 users who try C-Kermit might notice a familiar look & feel. Article 2842 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!inwap From: inwap@best.com (Joe Smith) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: FTP TYPE TENEX? Date: 24 Dec 2000 11:06:27 GMT Organization: Chez Inwap Lines: 50 Message-ID: <924lbj$1lsk$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> References: <91qtre$sil$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <3A41232E.76EA5103@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> <3A412E8B.CCFE637@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 977655987 55188 206.184.139.134 (24 Dec 2000 11:06:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@best.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Dec 2000 11:06:27 GMT Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:2842 In article <3A412E8B.CCFE637@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>, Malcolm MacArthur wrote: >Malcolm MacArthur wrote: > > 3.1.1.4. LOCAL TYPE > > The data is transferred in logical bytes of the size > specified by the obligatory second parameter, Byte size. > The value of Byte size must be a decimal integer; there is > no default value. The logical byte size is not necessarily > the same as the transfer byte size. If there is a > difference in byte sizes, then the logical bytes should be > packed contiguously, disregarding transfer byte boundaries > and with any necessary padding at the end. > [...] > > In another example, a pair of hosts with a 36-bit word size > may send data to one another in words by using TYPE L 36. > The data would be sent in the 8-bit transmission bytes > packed so that 9 transmission bytes carried two host words. > >I knew I'd read it somewhere... Still not sure how TOPS-20 turned two >words into bytes (as with binary files on wsmr-simtel20). Perhaps it >stored 9 bytes in 2 words? I did some experimenting with TOPS-20 to Unix transfers. For TEXT mode, use a 7-bit byte pointer to read or write the 36-bit file. For IMAGE mode, use a 4-bit byte pointer and read two nybbles for every octet sent (or write two nybbles for every octet received). (The least significant 4 bits of the first word would be combined with the most significant 4 bits of the second word.) For TENEX mode, use 8-bit byte pointer (which will skip over the least significant 4 bits of every word). For PAGE mode, there was a separate negociation between the two TOPS-20 systems to skip pages in sparse files. If an 8-bit program (such as a CP/M binary) was stored on a TOPS-20 system (such as SIMTEL20) and downloaded to an 8-bit platform in IMAGE mode instead of TENEX mode, the resulting file would be mangled. But the data could be recovered. I remember seeing TENEX.COM, a program for CP/M that would read a mangled input file 9 bytes at at time and write 8 bytes at a time (after discarding the 2 unwanted nybbles). -Joe -- See http://www.inwap.com/ for PDP-10 and "ReBoot" pages. Article 3659 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!ash.uu.net!spool1.news.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader0.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3A9AA112.22376D99@trailing-edge.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:31:46 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: 36-bit MIME types, PDP-10 FTP (was Re: File transfers was Re: Barb, DSKB is not in catalog!) References: <3A85706B.B4A96DC3@nospam.nospam> <3A8AE84B.99DF2D93@digiweb.com> <96er8c$8n$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <3A8C2842.98FAC4EE@nospam.nospam> <96hd0g$s7k$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <3A8C1EAE.7EE8CEE0@trailing-edge.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 67 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader0.news.uu.net 983230307 24490 63.73.218.130 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:3659 alt.folklore.computers:16821 Eric Chomko wrote: > > In alt.folklore.computers John Savard wrote: > : On 16 Feb 2001 21:44:20 GMT, Eric Chomko wrote, in > : part: > > : >In alt.folklore.computers Jay Maynard wrote: > : >[...] > : >: How does a 36-bit-word binary file get stored in an 8-bit-byte-oriented > : >: world, anyway? > : > > : >The UNIVAC 1100 series used to break "bytes" up into nine bit chunks and simply > : >not used the high-order bit. This was the way ASCII characters were stored when > : >they were not in Fieldata, UNIVAC's own 6-bit character information code. > > : Of course, that answers the opposite question: how to store a file > : made up of 8-bit bytes on a 36-bit machine. > > : In the other direction, if I have a PDP-10 program binary, I had > : better not discard bits. > > : One safe way to store it would simply be to divide the 36-bit word > : into six 6-bit characters, and store one of them in each byte. That, > : of course, is somewhat wasteful; only five bytes are really needed, > : and nine bytes will exactly store two words. > > Nine nybbles (or is it nibbles?) to a word. Actually, since machines are not > nybble-addressable, I suspect, as someone else mentioned, using a double word > (72 bits) to store nine 8-bit bytes is the safest thing to do. Indeed, that is how it was often done in FTP clients/servers for PDP-10's. From some 1983 sources to FTP for TOPS-20: http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/BB-EV83B-BM/TCPIP-SOURCES/FTP4.MAC SUBTTL NCP subroutine to shuffle bits from 8/32 bit wds to 36 bit wds PACK89: TXNN F,F.DSK ; It is on disk isn't it? RET ; No. Don't process it. SETZM WINDW2 ; Yes. Clear the window page MOVX A, BLT A,WINDW2+777 MOVX A,<-1100,,0> ; Number of 32 bit words in window MOVX B,<-10,,0> ; State counter MOVX C,<-1000,,WINDW2> ; Where 36 bit words go. PACK8L: AOBJP A,.+2 ; Count thru input MOVE T2,WINDOW(A) ; Get two 32 bit words MOVE T1,WINDOW-1(A) LSH T1,-4 ; Butt the two 32 bit groups together LSHC T1,@IMOSHT(B) ; Shift to get the correct 36 bits MOVEM T1,0(C) ; Store output word AOBJN C,.+1 ; Count output AOBJN B,PACK8N ; Need to reset state counter? MOVX B,<-10,,0> ; Yes. AOBJN A,.+1 ; And step an extra word. PACK8N: JUMPL A,PACK8L ; Loop if more to do MOVX B,] MOVNI C,1000 ; Packed 36-bit bytes RET Tim.