Article 7962 of alt.sys.pdp10:
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From: "Alan H. Martin" <AMartin@MA.UltraNet.Com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: ooh, a *real* flamewar :)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 09:12:59 -0400
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Christopher C Stacy wrote:
> 
> >>>>> On Sun, 02 Apr 2000 11:32:13 -0400, Alan H Martin ("Alan") writes:
>  Alan> Johnny Billquist wrote:
>  >> TOPS-20 and ITS has nothing more in common than that they run on
>  >> more or less the same hardware. They are two different operating systems.
>  Alan> Well, there was a *little* bit of overlap:
>  Alan>  MOVSI   0,112
>  Alan>  HRRI    0,11
>  Alan>  CALLI   0,41
>  Alan>   HALT   .
> 
> I am not sure what that's supposed to be about.
> The assembler used on ITS did not define symbols named CALLI or HALT.

Well, that's interesting.

"
     7) Midas does not know about any LISP symbols or
	UUOs specially. Use them as globals until someone
	gets around to fixing up a .INSRT file with the
	appropriate defs.
"

> What is that supposed to decode into, and what's it do?

140/	201000000112
141/	541000000011
142/	047000000041	; GETTAB
143/	254200000143

Returns the operating system type, encoded like this:

"
	%CNMNT==112,,11	;MONITOR TYPE
		CN%MNX==1B0	;STRANGE MONITOR
		CN%MNT==77B23	;DEC-KNOWN TYPE
			.CNT10==1	;TOPS-10
			.CNITS==2	;ITS
			.CNTNX==3	;TENEX
			.CNT20==4	;TOPS-20
			.CNTCX==5	;TYMCOM-X
		CN%MNS==77B29	;DEC SUB TYPE
		CN%MNC==77	;CUSTOMER SUBSUB TYPE
"

Toad does indeed return 40000, which is nice.

BTW, TOPS-10's sources don't mention the values 4 or 5.
				/AHM
-- 
Alan Howard Martin				AMartin@MA.UltraNet.Com


Article 7966 of alt.sys.pdp10:
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From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: ooh, a *real* flamewar :)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 00 12:17:22 GMT
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.
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In article <38F059A4.181B050F@trailing-edge.com>,
   Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> In article <38F081DB.F25A9D52@MA.UltraNet.Com>,
>>    "Alan H. Martin" <AMartin@MA.UltraNet.Com> wrote:
<snip>

>> >BTW, TOPS-10's sources don't mention the values 4 or 5.
>> 
>> I'm sure I put the TOPS20 value in UUOSYM.  Did you check that?
>
>It's in there, at least as of a TOPS-10 7.03 revision:
>
>http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/www/pdp-10/TOPS10_703A_SYS_ATPCH16_BB-FR67
F-BB/uuosym.mac

Ah, good.  For a second there I thought I was going nuts.  I
keep forgetting that Alan isn't TOPS10 wise and keeps looking
at wrong stuff.  I spent man-years making sure that UUOSYM
was _up to date_ and it wasn't easy getting those monitor
critters to cooperate :-).
  

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.


Article 7969 of alt.sys.pdp10:
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From: "Alan H. Martin" <AMartin@MA.UltraNet.Com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: ooh, a *real* flamewar :)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 11:35:55 -0400
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Tim Shoppa wrote:
> 
> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In article <38F081DB.F25A9D52@MA.UltraNet.Com>,
> >    "Alan H. Martin" <AMartin@MA.UltraNet.Com> wrote:
...
> > >BTW, TOPS-10's sources don't mention the values 4 or 5.
> >
> > I'm sure I put the TOPS20 value in UUOSYM.  Did you check that?
> 
> It's in there, at least as of a TOPS-10 7.03 revision:
> 
> http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/www/pdp-10/TOPS10_703A_SYS_ATPCH16_BB-FR67F-BB/uuosym.mac

But it's not in COMMON, which is where I didn't find it when I looked
at the TOPS-10 sources:

http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10_704_MONITORANF_BB-X140C-SB/COMMON.MAC

"
%CNMNT: BYTE    (1)0(17)0(6)1(6)0(6)0   ;(112) TYPE OF MONITOR
                                        ;    (1)=STRANGE
                                        ;    (17)=RESERVED TO DEC
                                        ;    (6)=TYPE:  1=TOPS-10
                                        ;               2=I.T.S.
                                        ;               3=TENEX
                                        ;               REST RESERVED TO DEC
                                        ;    (6)=SUBTYPE (RESERVED TO DEC)
                                        ;    (6)=RESERVED TO CUSTOMERS
"
				/AHM
-- 
Alan Howard Martin				AMartin@MA.UltraNet.Com


Article 7976 of alt.sys.pdp10:
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From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: ooh, a *real* flamewar :)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 12:56:52 -0700
Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing
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OK.  Here are the facts with respect to the CALLI system call, operation
41 (also called GETTAB), argument 112,,11:

TOPS-10 implements this system call, a native TOPS-10 system call, in the
kernel.

TOPS-20 implements this system call in the TOPS-10 compatibility package
(PA1050).  PA1050 is loaded automatically when a TOPS-10 system call is
attempted; the machine instructions for the two sets of system calls do
not overlap.  HOWEVER, as a special case check, CALLI 41 argument 112,,11
is implemented by the kernel (routine GETPAT in FORK.MAC or MEXEC.MAC in
older versions) to return the .CNT20 return; and the kernel will return
this without loading PA1050.  This is the only TOPS-10 system call
implemented by the TOPS-20 kernel.

ITS implements this system call in the TOPS-20 compatibility package
(DECUUO).  DECUUO is not loaded automatically, because TOPS-10 and ITS
system calls have an overlap: TOPS-10 CALL overlaps with ITS .IOT, TOPS-10
INIT overlaps with ITS .OPEN, and TOPS-10 CALLI overlaps with ITS .ACCESS.
Fortunately, there are equivalents in the non-overlapping ITS .CALL UUO
for .IOT, .OPEN, and .ACCESS so DECUUO can safely steal these without
impacting its own function.  ITS has no special case check in the kernel's
support code for .ACCESS for this GETTAB.  DECUUO, of course, supports it,
but a program that wants to switch system call suites based upon this will
probably lose on ITS.

On Sun, 9 Apr 2000, Alan H. Martin wrote:
> 	%CNMNT==112,,11	;MONITOR TYPE
> 		CN%MNX==1B0	;STRANGE MONITOR
> 		CN%MNT==77B23	;DEC-KNOWN TYPE
> 			.CNT10==1	;TOPS-10
> 			.CNITS==2	;ITS
> 			.CNTNX==3	;TENEX
> 			.CNT20==4	;TOPS-20
> 			.CNTCX==5	;TYMCOM-X
> 		CN%MNS==77B29	;DEC SUB TYPE
> 		CN%MNC==77	;CUSTOMER SUBSUB TYPE

-- Mark --

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