Article 2282 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.best.com!news1.best.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!usenet From: eric@brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: starting up an FTP archive (was Re: Hobbyist license for 36b software) Date: 26 Nov 1996 05:35:36 -0500 Organization: Brouhaha Computer Mercenary Services Lines: 42 Sender: eric@houhah.brouhaha.com Message-ID: References: <57dglh$51r@news-central.tiac.net> <57dipv$3ts@dfw-ixnews1.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: houhah.brouhaha.com In-reply-to: bugs@freebsd.netcom.com's message of 25 Nov 1996 19:57:19 -0600 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.1 Xref: nntp1.best.com comp.sys.dec:19211 alt.sys.pdp10:2282 shy@nowhere.net wrote: > If you are a home collector of Digital's 36b systems, you can now have > a free, personal use, non-commercial license for your existing system > software (TOPS-10, TOPS-20, and related layered products and > utilities). Mark Hittinger replied: > Amazing - the unknown implementor comes through! or a joke. We'll > find out :-) It's real. Rob Supnik is a VP of Digital. He arranged this license at the request of John Wilson and I (and probably others). I'm volunteering to run an FTP site for PDP-10 software that people are willing to share with other licensees: ftp.brouhaha.com:/pub/pdp-10/ There's nothing there yet except an incoming directory in which people can place contributions. If you upload something, please also upload a something.README so I have a clue what it is. I don't yet know whether Digital minds if I make their PDP-10 software available for anonymous FTP. Until I find out, I will create FTP-only accounts for those who send a signed copy of the completed license agreement by postal mail to: Eric Smith 142 N. Milpitas Blvd. #379 Milpitas, CA 95035 USA I'm requesting donations of images of DEC software distribution tapes of TOPS-10, TOPS-20, layered software, diagnostics, and anything else related, in source and/or object form. If it necessary for a donor to have proof of licensing, I'll mail out a copy of my completed license agreement. Eric -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian. http://www.lp.org/ (800) 682-1776 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article 2289 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.kolumbus.fi!pinta.kolumbus.fi!setala From: setala@pinta.kolumbus.fi (Saku Setala) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: starting up an FTP archive (was Re: Hobbyist license for 36b software) Date: 27 Nov 1996 00:26:32 GMT Organization: Kolumbus Information Network, Finnet Group Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <57dglh$51r@news-central.tiac.net> <57dipv$3ts@dfw-ixnews1.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinta.kolumbus.fi In-reply-to: eric@brouhaha.com's message of 26 Nov 1996 05:35:36 -0500 Xref: nntp1.best.com comp.sys.dec:19248 alt.sys.pdp10:2289 In article eric@brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) writes: There's nothing there yet except an incoming directory in which people can place contributions. If you upload something, please also upload a something.README so I have a clue what it is. I'm requesting donations of images of DEC software distribution tapes of TOPS-10, TOPS-20, layered software, diagnostics, and anything else related, in source and/or object form. If it necessary for a donor to have proof of licensing, I'll mail out a copy of my completed license agreement. Hi, I also suggest collecting the old DECUS tapes and similar TOPS-10/20 software. At least DECUS does not keep them online anymore. I am ready to offer a mirror site in Finland :) --Saku Saku Setala setala@kolumbus.fi -- Saku Setälä HPY Tietoverkot Article 2274 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.best.com!news1.best.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news-in.tiac.net!posterchild!news@tiac.net From: shy@nowhere.net Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Hobbyist license for 36b software Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 01:25:12 GMT Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Lines: 149 Message-ID: <57dglh$51r@news-central.tiac.net> Reply-To: shy@nowhere.net NNTP-Posting-Host: p6.ts1.metro.ma.tiac.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: nntp1.best.com comp.sys.dec:19192 alt.sys.pdp10:2274 If you are a home collector of Digital's 36b systems, you can now have a free, personal use, non-commercial license for your existing system software (TOPS-10, TOPS-20, and related layered products and utilities). Simply fill in the attached license form and return it to Dick Greeley in Digital's Corporate Licensing Office (rgreeley@powdml.enet.dec.com). This license grants you a free, as is, non-commercial license for using 36b software on a home system. You must already have, or have access to, the software itself; the license does NOT include any distribution medium, documentation, or support. /Bob Supnik /Digital Equipment Corporation -------------------------------------------------------------------- LICENSE AGREEMENT This Agreement, dated ________________, is entered into by Digital Equipment Corporation, a Massachusetts corporation with principal offices at 111 Powdermill Road, Maynard, MA 01752 (DIGITAL), and _____________________________________________ having a residence at ___________________________________________________________________ ("CUSTOMER"). Whereas, DIGITAL has developed TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 Operating System software technology and is prepared to grant a non-exclusive license to use such software technology for personal, non-commercial purposes; Whereas, CUSTOMER desires to enter into a License Agreement which will allow CUSTOMER to use such software technology at his or her residence for personal, non-commercial purposes; DIGITAL and CUSTOMER agree as follows: 1 DEFINITIONS SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY shall mean the sources and binaries to the TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 (operating systems), and associated utilities and layered products that run on PDP-10 computers. DIGITAL'S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS shall mean DIGITAL's patent, copyright and trade secret rights in its SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY. 2 LICENSE GRANT DIGITAL grants to CUSTOMER a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license under DIGITAL's INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS to use and modify the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY solely for personal, non-commercial uses. 3 TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER AND ACCEPTANCE 3.1 CUSTOMER is responsible for obtaining copies of SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY and accepts the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY "AS IS". 3.2 DIGITAL is under no obligation to supply SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY, documentation, error corrections or updates to the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY if or when they become available, or to provide training, support or consulting for the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY. 4 WARRANTY DISCLAIMER/LIMITATION OF LIABILITY DIGITAL DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES WITH REGARD TO ANY SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY LICENSED TO CUSTOMER HEREUNDER, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL DIGITAL BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE OR DATA, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY INFRINGEMENT OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF ANY SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY LICENSED HEREUNDER. 5 INDEMNITY CUSTOMER will hold DIGITAL harmless against all liabilities, demands, damages, expenses, or losses arising out of use by CUSTOMER of SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY or information furnished under this Agreement. 6 TERM AND TERMINATION 6.1 This Agreement shall be effective until otherwise terminated. Either party may terminate this Agreement at any time upon 30 days written notice. 6.2 If CUSTOMER shall fail to perform or observe any of the terms and conditions to be performed or observed by it under this Agreement, DIGITAL may in its sole discretion thereafter elect to terminate this Agreement, and this Agreement and all the obligations owed and rights granted herein to CUSTOMER shall immediately terminate. 6.3 The parties agree that the termination of this Agreement shall not release either party from any other liability which shall have accrued to the other party at the time such termination becomes effective, nor affect in any manner the survival of any right, duty or obligation of either party. 6.4 In the event of any termination of this Agreement for any reason, CUSTOMER shall delete all original and all whole or partial copies and derivatives of the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY from his or her computer system. CUSTOMER further shall cease to use and distribute the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY in all forms immediately upon the date of termination. 7 GENERAL TERMS 7.1 This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. 7.2 This Agreement imposes personal obligations on CUSTOMER. CUSTOMER shall not assign any rights under this Agreement not specifically transferable by its terms without the written consent of DIGITAL. 7.3 The SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY obtained under this Agreement may be subject to US and other government export control regulations. CUSTOMER assures that it will comply with these regulations whenever it exports or re-exports a controlled product or technical data obtained from DIGITAL or any product produced directly from the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY. 7.4 The waiver of a breach hereunder may be effected only by a writing signed by the waiving party and shall not constitute a waiver of any other breach. 7.5 CUSTOMER acknowledges that he has read this Agreement, understands it and agrees to be bound by its terms and further agrees that it is the complete and exclusive statement of the Agreement between the parties which supersedes all communications and understanding between the parties relating to the subject matter of this Agreement. Article 2290 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.best.com!news1.best.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.mathworks.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news-in.tiac.net!posterchild!news@tiac.net From: bob.supnik@ljo.dec.com (Bob Supnik) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Hobbyist license for 36b software Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 03:07:37 GMT Organization: The Internet Access Company, Inc. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <57gb1b$l3n@news-central.tiac.net> References: <57dglh$51r@news-central.tiac.net> <57dipv$3ts@dfw-ixnews1.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: bob.supnik@ljo.dec.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p16.ts14.bedfo.ma.tiac.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: nntp1.best.com comp.sys.dec:19252 alt.sys.pdp10:2290 bugs@freebsd.netcom.com (Mark Hittinger) wrote: >shy@nowhere.net writes: >>If you are a home collector of Digital's 36b systems, you can now have >>a free, personal use, non-commercial license for your existing system >>software... <> >Amazing - the unknown implementor comes through! or a joke. We'll >find out :-) >Later >Mark Hittinger (KL-1059 pre '84) >Netcom/Dallas >bugs@freebsd.netcom.com My apologies for the email address; I borrowed a friend's account on an ISP to post this note, because my own news server was down (and still is). This is a real note; Digital issued a similar license for OS/8 about two months ago. If you have collected a Digital 36b system for personal use, this license allows you to use the system software without fee on an as-is, no support basis. Again, I'm sorry about the email address. /Bob Supnik /Digital Equipment Corporation /bob.supnik@ljo.dec.com Article 2294 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.best.com!news1.best.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.mathworks.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!nntp.uio.no!sn.no!usenet From: blarsen@sn.no (Bjorn Hell Larsen) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Hobbyist license for 36b software Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:06:11 GMT Organization: Home, sweet home Lines: 19 Message-ID: <329be79d.419780@news.sn.no> References: <57dglh$51r@news-central.tiac.net> <57dipv$3ts@dfw-ixnews1.ix.netcom.com> <57gb1b$l3n@news-central.tiac.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: stavanger4-14.ppp.sn.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/32.299 Xref: nntp1.best.com comp.sys.dec:19270 alt.sys.pdp10:2294 In <57gb1b$l3n@news-central.tiac.net>, bob.supnik@ljo.dec.com (Bob Supnik) wrote: > If you have collected a Digital 36b system > for personal use, this license allows you to use the system software > without fee on an as-is, no support basis. Do you really have to have a physical 36b system in your possession in order to gain access to the source code? I'd really like to be able to read through the 7.03 SCNSER and GALAXY sources once more, although I have given up hope ever to log on to a T10 system again. Bjørn -- Bjorn Hell Larsen As always, I speak for me, and me alone http://home.sn.no/home/blarsen/ Dr. No Article 2913 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!not-for-mail From: eric@brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Wanted: TOPS-20 distribution on any media Date: 03 Jul 1997 04:04:56 -0400 Organization: Brouhaha Computer Mercenary Services Lines: 48 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: houhah.brouhaha.com In-reply-to: alderson@netcom10.netcom.com's message of Mon, 30 Jun 1997 18:44:47 GMT To: alderson@netcom.com X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.1 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:2913 In article alderson@netcom10.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) writes: > My reading of the home hobbyist license is that if you got a -20 (or -10) > from somewhere, you didn't have to go pay DEC (pardon me, "Digital") for the > right to use it as a hobby machine. If I purchase a -20 (or -10) somewhere, I don't *need* permission from DEC to use it as a hobby machine. What I do need permission for, however, is to use/copy the *software*. Without a license, the previous owner can't legally transfer a copy of the software to me, unless that owner somehow magically had posession of media without having signed a license (which should never happen). When John and I asked Rob Supnik if he could arrange for -10 and -20 software licenses, we specifically wanted licenses that would both allow us to legally run any -10 and -20 software we had access to, *and* to allow us to legally acquire the software from other licensees (commercial or otherwise). As far as I know the hobbyist license which Rob Supnik arranged to be made available to the entire community fills both of those requirements; I can't find any language in it to the contrary. Of course, I'm not a lawyer so YMMV. > Since they weren't covered by the standard commercial license, they > wouldn't be covered by the hobbyist license either. I asked Rob Supnik about the diagnostics, the microcode, and the front-end software (which could perhaps be considered to be -11 software rather than -10/-20 software), and he confirmed that the all of this software *is* covered by the hobbyist license. > The customer didn't own, or even rent, the diags--they belonged to > Field Circus. At most sites, the KLAD pack was > kept in a locked cabinet to which the FE had a key. The customer could purchase a diagnostic license and media, but was not required to do so. Field Circus would use their own if the customer didn't have one (and perhaps even if they did). But I could easily see why the Field Circus copy would be locked up; that would make sense even if the customer *did* have a license. The last time I checked (less than a year ago), the KL10 and KS10 diagnostics were still on the DEC price list! Cheers, Eric -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian. http://www.lp.org/ (800) 682-1776 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article 2914 of alt.sys.pdp10: Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!xfer.kren.nm.kr!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!ix.netcom.com!netcom16!alderson From: alderson@netcom16.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) Subject: Re: Wanted: TOPS-20 distribution on any media In-Reply-To: eric@brouhaha.com's message of 03 Jul 1997 04:04:56 -0400 Message-ID: Sender: alderson@netcom16.netcom.com Reply-To: alderson@netcom.com Organization: NETCOM On-line services References: Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 16:49:14 GMT Lines: 37 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:2914 In article eric@brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) writes: >In article >alderson@netcom10.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) writes: >>My reading of the home hobbyist license is that if you got a -20 (or -10) >>from somewhere, you didn't have to go pay DEC (pardon me, "Digital") for the >>right to use it as a hobby machine. >If I purchase a -20 (or -10) somewhere, I don't *need* permission from DEC to >use it as a hobby machine. What I do need permission for, however, is to >use/copy the *software*. Without a license, the previous owner can't legally >transfer a copy of the software to me, unless that owner somehow magically >had posession of media without having signed a license (which should never >happen). Sorry, the "it" in the sentence you quote was "TOPS-20", not the PDP-10. It was obvious to me, at least, that that was what I meant! ;-) >When John and I asked Rob Supnik if he could arrange for -10 and -20 software >licenses, we specifically wanted licenses that would both allow us to legally >run any -10 and -20 software we had access to, *and* to allow us to legally >acquire the software from other licensees (commercial or otherwise). As far >as I know the hobbyist license which Rob Supnik arranged to be made available >to the entire community fills both of those requirements; I can't find any >language in it to the contrary. Of course, I'm not a lawyer so YMMV. And the remainder of Eric's message demonstrates that I should have read both the hobbyist license, and the licenses at Stanford, a lot more closely. Sorry for raining on anyone's parade! -- Rich Alderson You know the sort of thing that you can find in any dictionary of a strange language, and which so excites the amateur philo- logists, itching to derive one tongue from another that they know better: a word that is nearly the same in form and meaning as the corresponding word in English, or Latin, or Hebrew, or what not. --J. R. R. Tolkien, alderson@netcom.com _The Notion Club Papers_ Article 5551 of alt.sys.pdp10: Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: PDP-10 software availability References: <379FE9FA.7D08@bell-labs.com> <37A11263.8A903F56@null.net> <37A2002B.504C8ADA@softstar.it> X-Disclaimer: Everything I write is false. Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 07 Aug 1999 21:25:15 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 7 Aug 1999 21:42:31 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:135982 alt.sys.pdp10:5551 alderson@netcom16.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) writes: > The problem is that we don't have DEC distribution tapes, we only have > licensed source. (Distribution tapes are just so much clutter if you aren't > going to use them.) I wish I *could* provide such a service. Licensed source *is* covered by the hobbyist license. It is stated in THE VERY FIRST SECTION of the license agreement that: SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY shall mean the sources and binaries to the TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 (operating systems), and associated utilities and layered products that run on PDP-10 computers. Article 8450 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!europa.netcrusader.net!199.60.229.5!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-10 Emulator Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 12:55:22 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <8erlne$eaa$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <8esa4h01gkc@enews1.newsguy.com> <4ls3hsgok9pjjfhm3ngsgvqc59sqj9oh71@4ax.com> <8eu8ij$iej$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <39127997.558035EA@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 957556524 34118 (None) 140.142.17.35 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: nightowl In-Reply-To: <39127997.558035EA@trailing-edge.com> Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:8450 On Fri, 5 May 2000, Tim Shoppa wrote: > The GPL isn't entirely a bed of roses, y'know. That's for sure. I don't like the way it legislates morality. Personally, I'm a fan of the MIT/X/Athena licence. > DIGITAL grants to CUSTOMER a worldwide, non-exclusive, > royalty-free license under DIGITAL's INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY > RIGHTS to use and modify the SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGY solely for > personal, non-commercial uses. Note that it says nothing whatsoever about "distribute". That's one problem. The other problem is whether or not the PDP-10 architecture is part of "DIGITAL's INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS" -- remember that the byte instructions were patented. Last but not least, every ex-DEC employee and contractor (I am among the latter) had other signed contracts. The hobbyist license clearly guarantees my right to continue possession of software that I acquired under those contracts, and renders moot any destruction requirements; however, there is nothing in the hobbyist license that releases me from the other terms of those contracts. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article: 17773 of alt.sys.pdp10 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!194.168.4.91.MISMATCH!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3D7B564B.4000208@iee.org> From: Antonio Carlini User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-gb, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: DEC 18-bit hdwr sold - now MANUALS FREE* References: <874rd0rir8.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Inktomi-Trace: pc1-oxfd1-5-cust216.oxf.cable.ntl.com 1031493199 17963 62.254.134.216 (8 Sep 2002 13:53:19 GMT) Lines: 18 Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 14:53:15 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.3.128.4 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: newsfep3-gui.server.ntli.net 1031493200 80.3.128.4 (Sun, 08 Sep 2002 14:53:20 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 14:53:20 BST Organization: ntl News Service Xref: dfw-artgen alt.sys.pdp8:5530 alt.sys.pdp10:17773 Paul Repacholi wrote: > DEC gave a waiver on Hardware Manuals that they no longer stocked WAY > back in 82 or 83. That has never been revoked as far as I know. I've seen references to the one granted in 1985 on *software* manuals (see http://www.decdocs.org for one reference to it). If there is a similar dispensation for other manuals that would be something I've not seen before. Do you have a reference to this? Antonio --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org