Article 4376 of alt.sys.pdp10:
Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.slip.net!209.191.0.18.MISMATCH!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.ultranet.com!d17
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: What was the TOPS-10 DATE75 fix?
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 98 13:32:41 GMT
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <72c4og$ic7$3@ligarius.ultra.net>
References: <36444B15.2FBA1EA5@trailing-edge.com> <72890s$dft$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <728quc$19k8$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <36485458.0@news.wizvax.net> <72aeru$h4e$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu> <72c3ud$ntb$2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d17.dial-16.mbo.ma.ultra.net
X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net
X-Ultra-Time: 11 Nov 1998 13:51:12 GMT
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4376 alt.folklore.computers:117513

In article <72c3ud$ntb$2@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>,
   carlini@krakar.enet.dec.com (Antonio Carlini) wrote:
>
>In article <72aeru$h4e$1@nntp1.u.washington.edu>, 
dpeschel@u.washington.edu (D. Peschel) writes:
>|>Hmph... it would be hard to find a more perfect example of "the right 
answer
>|>to the wrong question".  That answer doesn't shed any light on my 
question,
>|>which was whether the assembler recognized Control-D, or caret followed 
by D,
>|>as the decimal command.  (And showing these two characters in your 
message
>|>can't possibly illustrate how they would have been produced originally.)
>
>Never having used MACRO-10 I cannot say for certain, but the other DEC
>assemblers that I've used require that input as two characters exactly as
>you see it on the screen, i.e. caret and then D. The only time I've seen
>any sort of exception to that was TECO where <ESC><ESC> (that's two
>consecutive presses of the key marked ESCAPE or its equivalent) was echoed
>as $$ and is commonly represented as $$ in both manuals and e-text.

Sigh!  The proper name for the caret was up-arrow.  The manauls showed
the ESCAPE key as a dollar sign within a circle (the encircling
was all done by hand before the galleys were sent to the printers).  
Likewise, a <cntrl-C> was presented as
an up-arrow C with a circle drawn around it.  Representing keys
that were hit simultaneously in our documentation was always a
bug-a-boo and several artform techniques were tried over the
years.  There were always some people who didn't get it.
>
>Hopefully that helps (and if it turns out to be the wrong 
>answer for MACRO-10
>at least it's the right answer for MACRO-32 ...)

MACRO-10 took the character after the up-arrow argument to
define the base of the number.  So, if I wanted to make
sure that the person reading the code understood that a 
number was to be decimal, I would write MOVEI T1,^D10
There were times when it was important to view a number
as decimal rather than octal (which was the default).

/BAH


Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.


Article 4336 of alt.sys.pdp10:
Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws06.ne.mediaone.net!24.91.0.34!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Mike Gilbert" <jng@sli.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
References: <3A85706B.B4A96DC3@nospam.nospam> <3A8DA401.D850A6BB@unisys.com> <a5js8t0bvj7rmuo14cd65tcrj5q1dc7rpj@4ax.com> <qhzof9t0tb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <97h7o6$7aepg$1@fido.engr.sgi.com> <3AC7323B.56472F09@MA.UltraNet.Com> <wwlmphn3tm.fsf_-_@saturn.cfht.hawaii.edu> <9ak57j$1vu$1@bob.news.rcn.net>
Subject: Re: long symbols [was Re: 36-bit MIME types, PDP-10 FTP]
Lines: 58
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
Message-ID: <dFJz6.16859$WZ4.3683345@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 19:13:13 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.31.114.241
X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net
X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 986670793 66.31.114.241 (Sat, 07 Apr 2001 15:13:13 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 15:13:13 EDT
Organization: Road Runner
Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4336

Wow, Hacro and Klink, I haven't thought about those in *decades*.

When Dave Nixon wrote Link, he defined all sorts of "new" .rel file block
types, starting at 1000, which were intended to add support for long symbols
and various other advanced features.  Dave documented them in the Link
manual even though they weren't implemented; I answered several inquiries
from compiler writers asking how to get the new block types to work...

So I spent a lot of spare time implementing those new block types, and my
co-conspirator Jim Thomas added some code to Macro to generate them.  But
when I left DEC no real product was using them.  This was also about the
time that Bob Houk and I added extended addressing support to Link and DDT,
also as a midnight project.

During a Link documentation review, I mentioned that none of these 1000+
block types in the documentation were actually implemented.  The
documentation person was horrified, as was product management.  I also got
wind of the idea that long symbols should be ASCII to be compatible with
that new upstart VAX product (the 1000+ block types used SIXBIT).

There was some pressure building to remove the new block types from the
documentation and maybe the code until such time as they were rethought and
really implemented, but it was still there when I left DEC.  I haven't
looked at recent sources so I have no idea what eventually happened.

Mike Gilbert

P.S. Hi to "T, Nothead:" and all you other old-timers.

<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message news:9ak57j$1vu$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
> In article <wwlmphn3tm.fsf_-_@saturn.cfht.hawaii.edu>,
>    Jim Thomas wrote:
> >>>>>> "Alan" == Alan H Martin <AMartin@MA.UltraNet.Com> writes:
> >
> > Alan> From a mail message of 29-Apr-83 from Fortran 77 to LINK:
> >
> > Alan> "
> > Alan> Over the long term, the -20 languages and utilities will be moving
> > Alan> toward support of the corporate 8-bit ASCII standard. Thus, when
> LINK
> > Alan> support for long symbols is implemented it should be done in a way

> that
> > Alan> will allow for future support of that standard.
> >
> >?  Mike Gilbert and I had long symbols in LINK
> >(KLINK) and MACRO (HACRO) in
> >1975.  I gather that got lost :-(
>
> David wouldn't have taken it out.  I suspect that Alan was a tad
> confused.  Perhaps he was talking about Fortran generating those
> long symbols.
>
> /BAH
>
> Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.




Article 4367 of alt.sys.pdp10:
Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news2.best.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail
From: "Alan H. Martin" <AMartin@MA.UltraNet.Com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: long symbols [was Re: 36-bit MIME types, PDP-10 FTP]
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 20:27:28 -0400
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <3AD101F0.E7288456@MA.UltraNet.Com>
References: <3A85706B.B4A96DC3@nospam.nospam> <3A8DA401.D850A6BB@unisys.com> <a5js8t0bvj7rmuo14cd65tcrj5q1dc7rpj@4ax.com> <qhzof9t0tb.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <97h7o6$7aepg$1@fido.engr.sgi.com> <3AC7323B.56472F09@MA.UltraNet.Com> <wwlmphn3tm.fsf_-_@saturn.cfht.hawaii.edu> <9ak57j$1vu$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <dFJz6.16859$WZ4.3683345@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZYMyOb30+KS+QgcvqT1/NdFYGl7QthFQg5G1VnqOmAIeWyc5NOmc8S
X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Apr 2001 00:27:34 GMT
X-Mailer:  Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U)
X-Accept-Language:  en,en-US,en-GB,es
Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4367

Mike Gilbert wrote:

> So I spent a lot of spare time implementing those new block types, and my
> co-conspirator Jim Thomas added some code to Macro to generate them.  But
> when I left DEC no real product was using them.  This was also about the
> time that Bob Houk and I added extended addressing support to Link and DDT,
> also as a midnight project.

FORTRAN-20 V10 ultimately depended upon numerous 1000+ series (``new'')
REL blocks in the LINK V5.1 V5.1 maintenance release.


> During a Link documentation review, I mentioned that none of these 1000+
> block types in the documentation were actually implemented.  The
> documentation person was horrified, as was product management.  I also got
> wind of the idea that long symbols should be ASCII to be compatible with
> that new upstart VAX product (the 1000+ block types used SIXBIT).
>
> There was some pressure building to remove the new block types from the
> documentation and maybe the code until such time as they were rethought and
> really implemented, but it was still there when I left DEC.  I haven't
> looked at recent sources so I have no idea what eventually happened.

Nothing came of any ASCII symbol plans - but the SIXBIT REL blocks were
used heavily by FORTRAN.
				/AHM
-- 
Alan Howard Martin				AMartin@MA.UltraNet.Com


Article: 19645 of alt.sys.pdp10
Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed!wn13feed!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!sccrnsc03.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <3EAC0A36.5F0180C2@ev1.net>
From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>
Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net
Organization: Canine Computer Center
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: patch the TOPS-20 monitor for idleness, running klh10
References: <cs9adecktho.fsf@update.uu.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.241.15.59
X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com
X-Trace: sccrnsc03 1051455138 12.241.15.59 (Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:52:18 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:52:18 GMT
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:52:18 GMT
Xref: dfw-artgen alt.sys.pdp10:19645

Andreas Davour wrote:
> 
>        [snip...]        [snip...]       [snip...]
> 
> I don't know any PDP-10 assembler (how do I learn?) or how
> to do much magic with DDT. I guess DDT magic is involved here.
> 
You can download some manuals from:

	<http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp10/1973_AsmLangHandbook/>


There are also published books on writing PDP-10 assembler language.


--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Charles and Francis Richmond     richmond at plano dot net   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+