Article 4794 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:43:01 -0400 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 27 Message-ID: <37225705.A7E8E050@stoneweb.com> References: <160419991655286030%drissman@acm.org> <7f9rhv$al3$3@ligarius.ultra.net> <3719f951.76285607@news.cadvision.com> <7fgd03$3sv$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zephyr.ultranet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 24 Apr 1999 23:43:04 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:128768 alt.sys.pdp10:4794 Eric Werme - replace nospam with werme wrote: > > PDP-10s had a builtin bootstrap mechanism. Set the device number, > press the boot button (name?) and the system would read one word > from the perihperal. > > [...] Disks didn't support it. Booting from disk entailed > booting from DECtape and typing the name of the disk boot program. This isn't entirely correct. The RH-10 supported READIN mode. I'm sure it "faked it" as all the data from the disk passed through the DF-10 data channel, but the scheme worked. Of course it only booted from RP?0, but that's a technicality. From what I've seen in other systems, it probably faked a transfer of a 'JRST (wherever), JRST .' and the machine looped happily until the DF-10 overwrote the location of the "JRST .". (Here's one of the points where "standard" punctuation fails, miserably!) Just a guess, though. -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ Article 4822 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!nntp1.ba.best.com!not-for-mail From: inwap@best.com (Joe Smith) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: 26 Apr 1999 01:14:58 -0700 Organization: Chez Inwap Message-ID: <7g17a2$pp$1@shell3.ba.best.com> References: <160419991655286030%drissman@acm.org> <3719f951.76285607@news.cadvision.com> <7fgd03$3sv$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <37225705.A7E8E050@stoneweb.com> Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 925114503 224 inwap@206.184.139.134 Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:128843 alt.sys.pdp10:4822 In article <37225705.A7E8E050@stoneweb.com>, Carl R. Friend wrote: >Eric Werme - replace nospam with werme wrote: >> >> PDP-10s had a builtin bootstrap mechanism. Set the device number, >> press the boot button (name?) and the system would read one word >> from the perihperal. >> >> [...] Disks didn't support it. Booting from disk entailed >> booting from DECtape and typing the name of the disk boot program. > > This isn't entirely correct. The RH-10 supported READIN mode. I'm >sure it "faked it" as all the data from the disk passed through the >DF-10 data channel, but the scheme worked. Of course it only booted >from RP?0, but that's a technicality. That may have worked with the first model of disks, but not with the RP02 or RP03. The usual thing was to have a short bootstrap program routine in the paper-tape reader at all times. Pressing the READ-IN button with the device code set to PTR would read in the pre-boot program from the paper-tape reader. That program would then read in BOOTS from blocks 3, 4, 5 on the lowest numbered disk on the first disk channel. At the Colorado School of Mines, the terminal-line scanner was a PDP-8 with a few unused memory locations. It was set up to supply the pre-boot routine for READ-IN mode instead of using the paper-tape reader. -Joe -- INWAP.COM is Joe Smith, Sally Smith and our cat Murdock. (The O'Hallorans and their cats moved to http://www.tyedye.org/ Nov-98.) See http://www.inwap.com/ for PDP-10, "ReBoot", "Shadow Raiders"/"War Planets" Article 4840 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.ultranet.com!not-for-mail From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:09:55 -0400 Organization: as little as possible! Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3724F243.6A64F9C9@stoneweb.com> References: <160419991655286030%drissman@acm.org> <3719f951.76285607@news.cadvision.com> <7fgd03$3sv$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <37225705.A7E8E050@stoneweb.com> <7g17a2$pp$1@shell3.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: zephyr.ultranet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 26 Apr 1999 23:09:57 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.29 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:128902 alt.sys.pdp10:4840 Joe Smith wrote: > > [READIN mode] may have worked with the first model of disks, but not > with the RP02 or RP03. I remember it working with the RP04s at ADP. My belief is that the "brains" behind this lived in the RH-10, and the RH-10 returned a tiny program via the I/O bus and commanded the disk to transfer sector zero through the DF-10 into memory, at some point overwriting a self- jump that the RH-10 had given the processor. Of course I may have my head up my backside, but I do not ever recall booting a live system using either paper tape or DECtape. > At the Colorado School of Mines, the terminal-line scanner was a PDP-8 > with a few unused memory locations. It was set up to supply the > pre-boot routine for READ-IN mode instead of using the paper-tape > reader. I've read about that hack and like it a lot. That's a creative use of resources! -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | | | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ Article 4851 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!144.212.100.101.MISMATCH!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.ultranet.com!d14 From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW Date: Tue, 27 Apr 99 07:51:23 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 37 Message-ID: <7g40en$qnq$3@antiochus.ultra.net> References: <160419991655286030%drissman@acm.org> <3719f951.76285607@news.cadvision.com> <7fgd03$3sv$1@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <37225705.A7E8E050@stoneweb.com> <7g17a2$pp$1@shell3.ba.best.com> <3724F243.6A64F9C9@stoneweb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d14.dial-15.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 27 Apr 1999 09:36:23 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:128924 alt.sys.pdp10:4851 In article <3724F243.6A64F9C9@stoneweb.com>, "Carl R. Friend" wrote: >Joe Smith wrote: >> >> [READIN mode] may have worked with the first model of disks, but not >> with the RP02 or RP03. > > I remember it working with the RP04s at ADP. My belief is that the >"brains" behind this lived in the RH-10, and the RH-10 returned a tiny >program via the I/O bus and commanded the disk to transfer sector >zero through the DF-10 into memory, at some point overwriting a self- >jump that the RH-10 had given the processor. > > Of course I may have my head up my backside, but I do not ever >recall booting a live system using either paper tape or DECtape. First of all, one did not boot a live system; users had a habit of shooting the crasher [joking emoticon here just giving a little prod]. One could boot a dead system from disk, paper tape, DECtape or magtape (I'm talking about KAs and KIs here...not KLs). > >> At the Colorado School of Mines, the terminal-line scanner was a PDP-8 >> with a few unused memory locations. It was set up to supply the >> pre-boot routine for READ-IN mode instead of using the paper-tape >> reader. > > I've read about that hack and like it a lot. That's a creative use >of resources! > Yes, well, it got implemented to the extreme with the KL; for that we gave up real live lights. TW hated it. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.