Article 967 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news1.best.com!sdd.hp.com!gatech!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!mhk.tiac.net!user From: mhk@tiac.net (Mark Kaepplein) Newsgroups: alt.lang.teco,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Are TECO searches compiled ?? Date: 28 Jul 1995 04:22:59 GMT Organization: sporadic Lines: 69 Message-ID: References: <3urkgj$p6g@clarknet.clark.net> <1491@larch.ukc.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: mhk.tiac.net Xref: news1.best.com alt.lang.teco:200 alt.sys.pdp10:967 In article , werme@zk3.dec.com wrote: > R.D.Eager@ukc.ac.uk (rde) writes: > > >I seem to remember that, on the KL-10 TECO I had, there was a place where > >actual code was generated and placed into the REGISTERS for fast execution. > > >I don't know if that was for searches, though. > > It was for buffer compression code. The original BLISS macro processor was > written in TECO. I could tell from the lights (KA) when it was getting > close to the end of the file. Unfortunately, code running in registers > on a KL10 ran slower than code running from the cache. Only on KA and KI > (I don't know about KS) did that produce a speedup. Yup. DEC and Stevens/Utexas teco compressed the text buffer every time you did a delete not up to the end. You see, teco needed to keep the text buffer contiguous. So every text insertion or deletion anywhere but the end required much shuffling around. I don't think deleted text memory was given up, btw. MIT text buffer handling was much more sophisticated. Every text buffer object had a "hole" (other q/array/string objects didn't). When a deletion or insertion took place, the hole was move to PT (. or point) and grown or shrunk appropriately. Since ITS teco ran on ITS, TENEX, and TOPS20, I believe also that page maps were manipulated to grow/shrink the hole or end of buffer for large changes. This scheme was far more efficient than the DEC/Stevens tecos, but every routine that affected text buffers had to know about the hole. Call me a packrat, but I came accross a listing of Stevens/Utexas teco. Here's the comment for the AC loop code to expand the text buffer: ; The following is the code used to move characters up. ; ;LP: MOVE T1,(T) ; Get a word ; ROT T1,-1 ; Get rid of the extra bit ; ROTC T1,-7*<# chars to insert>/5 ; Move chars down into T2 ; MOVEM T2,<+<# chars to insert>/5>(T3) ; ROTC T1,-<35-7*<# chars to insert>/5> ; SoJGE T3,LP ; Loop for <-> + 1 if ; ; REM(<<# to insert>+END>/5) > REM(PT/5) The compression code was smarter and more extensive. For small counts, it just did byte moves. For longer ones, it checked if source and or destination byte alignments were needed, and moved the best routine to the stack (where it runs faster on a KL). Trivia note: at LP+1, the 36th bit gets cleared. In Dec teco, this bit was set to indicate that this word (5 bytes) was a line sequence number beginning a new line. The previous word was null filled after the crlf. Re: compile on the fly code: I can think of a few examples: 1. The BBN Blt terminal. BitBlt's were compiled on the fly (68000 code). 2. The blt routine for the X implementation on the QVSS frame buffer generated VAX code on the fly (written by Dave Carver) 3. Interleaf Desktop Publishing software image manipulation routines (ie, rotation, scale, skew) generated code on the fly for many of the original architectures (ie 68000), but on RISC architectures with seperate instruction cache's (ie most mips implementations), you had to do a cache flush (so the instructions you created made it out to memory and into the icache) first (big lose). Hence, most architecture implementations use straight C code - well the appropriate one for big/little endian and word size/alignment of the machine. Even without compiling on the fly, its magic. Written by Bob Watkins. Mark Kaepplein (one time maintainer of TOPS-10 TECO) Article 1145 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: shellx.best.com!news1.best.com!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!info-server.bbn.com!clements From: clements@bbn.com (Bob Clements) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.lang.teco Subject: Re: TECO on non DEC platforms Date: 25 Sep 1995 17:59:09 GMT Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman (BBN) Lines: 32 Message-ID: <446qld$oto@info-server.bbn.com> References: <43kpm6$nku@darkstar.bos.locus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lion.bbn.com Xref: shellx.best.com alt.folklore.computers:36251 alt.sys.pdp10:1145 alt.lang.teco:294 In article (a fine long Message-ID if ever there was one) Mark Crispin writes: >TECO was always this way at MIT, from the first PDP-1 >implementation that Dan Murphy wrote. Nobody there ever thought that TECO >would be useful without a display. >Bob Clements generated the first Teletype TECO for the DEC PDP-6 monitor; >I don't know why. Perhaps they didn't let him have a display monitor... Pretty much true. I TOPS-6-ized the MIT TECO in my spare time while sitting around at SAIL during the installation of their PDP-6. Mainly to have a better editor than EDLIN (or whatever) to use while I was there. I happened to have the TECO source with me at the time. That would have been -- guessing -- August 1966? The only terminals available to me at the time were TTY-33s and TTY-35s. And on another point, someone recently spouted a silly rumor that a "JRST @." would hang a KA-10 and asked for an old-timer to refute it. I (project engineer for the KA-10) refute it, of course. I posted to that effect a week or so ago, but posts from here weren't getting out for a while. >-- Mark -- /Rcc Bob Clements, K1BC, clements@bbn.com, (w) +1 617 USE K1BC Article 2465 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.best.com!news1.best.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mindspring!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!metro.atlanta.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!dallasI5.dallas.net!news From: Charles Richmond Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.sys.pdp11,alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: TECO Manual from DECUS/TECO SIG? Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 16:44:36 -0600 Organization: Canine Computer Center Lines: 46 Message-ID: <32B32DD3.7227@plano.net> Reply-To: richmond@plano.net NNTP-Posting-Host: aux136.plano.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) Xref: nntp1.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:2465 alt.sys.pdp11:1914 alt.sys.pdp8:1346 Okay, I *know* that this is *not* the place to post, but I have asked this question on a TECO newsgroup and a DECUS newsgroup with *no* real success. Can any of the old-timers here tell me where I can get a TECO manual from the 'Net? Ten years or so when I was working at General Dynamics in San Diego, ago I had a 9-track tape from a VAX that contained this manual. I made a printed copy, but I would like to have a magnetic copy also. The title page from my printed copy says: Standard TECO TEXT EDITOR AND CORRECTOR FOR THE PDP-11, PDP-10, AND PDP-8 USER'S GUIDE AND LANGUAGE REFERENCE MANUAL Preliminary Edition - April 1979 TECO-11 VERSION 34 TECO-10 VERSION 1 TECO-8 VERSION 7 It says it is Copyright 1979 by the TECO SIG. Permission is given to copy the manual as long as it is *not* done for profit. TIA. -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Article 2469 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.best.com!news1.best.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!alph02.triumf.ca!shoppa From: shoppa@alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.sys.pdp11,alt.sys.pdp8,vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.lang.teco,comp.org.decus Subject: Re: TECO Manual from DECUS/TECO SIG? Date: 15 Dec 1996 16:22:14 GMT Organization: TRIUMF, Canada's National Meson Facility Lines: 24 Message-ID: <5918jm$mhc@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> References: <32B32DD3.7227@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: alph02.triumf.ca Xref: nntp1.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:2469 alt.sys.pdp11:1919 alt.sys.pdp8:1348 vmsnet.pdp-11:4104 alt.lang.teco:551 comp.org.decus:1753 In article <32B32DD3.7227@plano.net>, Charles Richmond wrote: >Okay, I *know* that this is *not* the place to post, but I have asked >this question >on a TECO newsgroup and a DECUS newsgroup with *no* real success. > >Can any of the old-timers here tell me where I can get a TECO manual >from the 'Net? Versions of the TECO V40 manual are on Pete Siemsen's DECUS tape. (VS0099, I believe.) For some bizarre reason, this tape is no longer available from DECUS (despite the fact that it is certainly one of the most useful tapes they ever produced!) Fortunately, the contents of the tape are available by anonymous ftp from several sources. Try ftp://ftp.usc.edu/pub/teco/doc.tar.Z, or, for a non-tarred-and-compressed V40 manual, go to ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11 /teco/doc/teco.doc (Yes, that's all supposed to be one line!) Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) Article 2475 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.best.com!news1.best.com!noos.hooked.net!news.clark.net!news.netserv.com!fsc.fujitsu.com!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.net.uk!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!zetnet.co.uk!zetnet.co.uk!pete.fenelon From: pete.fenelon@zetnet.co.uk (Pete Fenelon) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.sys.pdp11,alt.sys.pdp8 Subject: Re: TECO Manual from DECUS/TECO SIG? Followup-To: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.sys.pdp11,alt.sys.pdp8 Date: 15 Dec 1996 16:14:49 GMT Organization: Pete Fenelon Lines: 16 Message-ID: <59185p$7kr@irk.zetnet.co.uk> References: <32B32DD3.7227@plano.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-077.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: nntp1.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:2475 alt.sys.pdp11:1921 alt.sys.pdp8:1349 Charles Richmond (richmond@plano.net) wrote: : Can any of the old-timers here tell me where I can get a TECO manual : from the 'Net? : Ten years or so when I was working at General Dynamics in San Diego, ago : I had a : 9-track tape from a VAX that contained this manual. I made a printed : copy, but I : would like to have a magnetic copy also. If it's out there it'll be on ftp.usc.edu:/pub/teco -- I have one I pulled from there some years ago. pete -- Pete Fenelon, 39 Broadway, Fulford, York, YO1 4JP, UK Tel.: +44 1904 670334 pete.fenelon@zetnet.co.uk "I could tell you, but only at consultancy rates" Article 66 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news2.best.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!feeder.via.net!news.he.net!cnn.nas.nasa.gov!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: TECO version 124 Date: 28 Jun 2000 12:54:06 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <3959986B.71DAE848@dallas.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 962232850 28252 128.171.80.135 (28 Jun 2000 22:54:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jun 2000 22:54:10 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:66 >>>>> "Charles" == Charles Richmond writes: Charles> Jim Thomas wrote: >> Arrrgh.... I just discovered that the TECO sources at >> >> ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp10/tops10/teco124.mac >> >> are corrupted - a bunch of Cisco e-mail in the middle of my search >> routine :-( Anyone have a good copy? >> Charles> You might try the one at: Charles> Nope, that's another copy with the cisco e-mail in it. I got one from Phil, thanks, Phil! Nothead Article 95 of alt.sys.pdp10: Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: TECO version 124 References: <395B8B7B.37DD4B02@dallas.net> Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com Message-ID: <395e9685$1_1@news.wizvax.net> Date: 1 Jul 2000 21:10:29 -0400 X-Trace: 1 Jul 2000 21:10:29 -0400, dbit.dbit.com Lines: 15 XPident: wilson X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.181.141.3 XPident: news Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!europa.netcrusader.net!194.176.220.129!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.wizvax.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!wilson Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:95 In article , Jim Thomas wrote: > Charles> Can you contact the two WEB pages that have the *bad* > Charles> teco124.mac (with the Cisco e-mail) and maybe get them to post > Charles> the sources you got from Phil??? That way *everyone* could > Charles> get a clean copy of the teco124.mac sources.... > >Done :-) Thanks for the suggestion. I've posted the correct teco124.mac on *.dbit.com -- thanks Jim!! Don't know where else that file had propagated to, I can't even remember where I got it (looks to be 6 years ago). John Wilson D Bit Article 61 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!spool1.news.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader0.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3959BB7E.586501FF@trailing-edge.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:46:54 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.0 DEC 3000 Model 300L) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: TECO version 124 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 55 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader0.news.uu.net 962196415 7794 63.73.218.130 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:61 Jim Thomas wrote: > > Arrrgh.... I just discovered that the TECO sources at > > ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp10/tops10/teco124.mac > > are corrupted - a bunch of Cisco e-mail in the middle of my search routine > :-( Anyone have a good copy? It seems to be quite a branch off from your TECO evolutionary tree, but the sources to the TECO distributed on the TOPS-10 7.03 CUSP tape can be found at http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/CUSPMAR86BINSRC_1OF2_BB-X128B-SB.html You'll probably want to pick up TECO.MAC, TECO.DOC, and TECO.ERR. At a different point in its evolution, you'll find a version of TOPS-10 TECO from 1980 or so at http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/www/lib10/0474/ and a version that's been very slightly patched for TOPS-20 at http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/www/lib20/0139/ The abstract from these DECUS distributions is below: TECO-10 Abstract TECO-10 is a considerably extended version of TECO. It is based on XTEC, rather than DECsystem-10 TECO, so it is a compiler, not an interpreter. It includes essentially all of the features of XTEC (although some have been renamed for compatability with TECO-11 and TECO-8). It includes window support (written in TECO-10 so it can be customized easily!). Terminals supported are VT52, VT61, VT100 (in VT52 mode), and VT05. Any q-register can be made to function as the text buffer, and files can be read or written to/from any q-register, so several files can be edited at once. Two screen-editing subsystems are available written in TECO-10. These are VT and VTEDIT. Both are included with TECO-10. TECO-10 is mostly compatable with TECO-11, TECO-8 and TECO-VAX TECO-10 will run on either the DECsystem-10 or the DECsystem-20 (under feature-test). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Article 63 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.37!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-102-223 From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: TECO version 124 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 00 10:09:50 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 66 Message-ID: <8jct3b$rd3$3@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3959BB7E.586501FF@trailing-edge.com> X-Trace: 15LRJgCFxANUDX0blv7fRzNQZRVA3Z8ZB9cA0Go4C5Y= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jun 2000 13:03:39 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:63 In article <3959BB7E.586501FF@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa wrote: >Jim Thomas wrote: >> >> Arrrgh.... I just discovered that the TECO sources at >> >> ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp10/tops10/teco124.mac >> >> are corrupted - a bunch of Cisco e-mail in the middle of my search routine >> :-( Anyone have a good copy? > >It seems to be quite a branch off from your TECO evolutionary tree, >but the sources to the TECO distributed on the TOPS-10 7.03 CUSP tape >can be found at > >http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/CUSPMAR86BINSRC_1OF2_BB-X128B-SB.ht ml > >You'll probably want to pick up TECO.MAC, TECO.DOC, and TECO.ERR. I think you have to have TECO.ERR to run the EXE. > >At a different point in its evolution, you'll find a version of >TOPS-10 TECO from 1980 or so at > > http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/www/lib10/0474/ > >and a version that's been very slightly patched for TOPS-20 at > > http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/www/lib20/0139/ > >The abstract from these DECUS distributions is below: > > TECO-10 Abstract > > > TECO-10 is a considerably extended version of TECO. It is based on >XTEC, > rather than DECsystem-10 TECO, so it is a compiler, not an interpreter. > It includes essentially all of the features of XTEC (although some have > been renamed for compatability with TECO-11 and TECO-8). It includes > window support (written in TECO-10 so it can be customized easily!). > Terminals supported are VT52, VT61, VT100 (in VT52 mode), and VT05. > Any q-register can be made to function as the text buffer, and files > can be read or written to/from any q-register, so several files can > be edited at once. > > Two screen-editing subsystems are available written in TECO-10. > These are VT and VTEDIT. Both are included with TECO-10. > > TECO-10 is mostly compatable with TECO-11, TECO-8 and TECO-VAX > > TECO-10 will run on either the DECsystem-10 or the DECsystem-20 > (under feature-test). > And that explains why the one I tried wasn't TECO. There was something strange about its behaviour but I couldn't describe it to the guy interested in hearing about bugs. I'm so relieved. I thought I was going nuts. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. Article 67 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cnn.nas.nasa.gov!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: TECO version 124 Date: 28 Jun 2000 13:18:57 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <3959BB7E.586501FF@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 962234338 1380 128.171.80.135 (28 Jun 2000 23:18:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jun 2000 23:18:58 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:67 >>>>> "Tim" == Tim Shoppa writes: Tim> Jim Thomas wrote: >> Arrrgh.... I just discovered that the TECO sources at >> >> ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp10/tops10/teco124.mac >> >> are corrupted - a bunch of Cisco e-mail in the middle of my search >> routine :-( Anyone have a good copy? Tim> It seems to be quite a branch off from your TECO evolutionary Tim> tree, No kidding :-) This was Texas-TECO formerly Stevens-TECO :-) But it was a branch off the "true" TECO tree. It came before the Stevens transplant to TECO200 which was a video TECO. It WAS upwards compatible from "true" TECO. Tim> but the sources to the TECO distributed on the TOPS-10 7.03 Tim> CUSP tape can be found at Tim> .... Tim> At a different point in its evolution, you'll find a version of Tim> TOPS-10 TECO from 1980 or so at Tim> http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/www/lib10/0474/ Tim> .... Tim> TECO-10 is mostly compatable with TECO-11, TECO-8 and TECO-VAX And not with "true" TECO - ISTR it was a complete rewrite. It did look like TECO-11, which was an advantage, but it did not look like TECO, which was a disadvantage. (All IMHO - I used them all :-) Nothead Article 73 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!sea-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!news.u.washington.edu!shimo-tomobiki.panda.com!MRC From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: TECO version 124 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:04:59 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 37 Sender: mrc@shivams.cac.washington.edu Message-ID: References: <3959BB7E.586501FF@trailing-edge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nntp4.u.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 962244310 63920 (None) 140.142.17.38 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: news In-Reply-To: <3959BB7E.586501FF@trailing-edge.com> Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:73 On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Tim Shoppa wrote: > TECO-10 is a considerably extended version of TECO. It is based on > XTEC, > rather than DECsystem-10 TECO, so it is a compiler, not an interpreter. XTEC! Wow! I'm glad to hear that! XTEC was originally written by Jack Krupansky at Stevens Tech. Around 1975, I took over the effort, and hacked on it for a couple of years. Among other things, I made sure that XTEC had all the features of the Stevens extensions to TECO (many of which I suggested, although I doubt that there's any credit given to me for having done so [*]). I then submitted XTEC to DECUS. Although I think that I got XTEC running under WAITS, when I started working at SAIL in July 1977 I started using the standard WAITS E editor instead of XTEC. Then, briefly in 1984, I used XTEC for a while at Systems Concepts before I got TOPS-20 running and could use EMACS. [*] By the way, I was also responsible for suggesting the better user interface in EMACS for entering file names, etc. In the original EMACS, if you typed ^X^F, it would create a minibuffer with a bunch of TECO commands to read in the file, and leave the cursor at the correct point in the minibuffer for you to type in the file name. I suggested that it should prompt you for the filename at the bottom of the screen. These days, you hardly ever need to use a minibuffer to enter commands. I doubt that EMACS would have maintained its popularity over 25 years if it remained as oriented towards users dealing with TECO commands. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 2081 of alt.sys.pdp10: Message-ID: <3A274C9C.28CC5805@ev1.net> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:00:43 -0800 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Help! TECO problems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-207-55-144-238.ev1.net X-Trace: 30 Nov 2000 23:03:51 -0600, taydal-207-55-144-238.ev1.net Lines: 40 Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.nwlink.com!nntp2.savvis.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:2081 Timothy Stark wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > I am looking for TECO manual for how to use it. > You can get a postscript version of the TECO manual at: or a plain ascii version of the manual at: If you would like a .pdf version, email me...I converted the postscript version to .pdf and will send you a copy as an attachment. Here are some other TECO related links: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/doc/teco.doc ftp://ftp.mindlink.net/pub/teco ftp://ftp.mindlink.net/pub/teco/usc-archive/ ftp://ftp.usc.edu/pub/tecohttp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/ ftp://ftp.wimsey.com/pub/teco/usc-archive/ ftp://usc.edu/pub/teco/ ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp10/tops10/teco124.mac {Note: this is the MACRO-10 sources, 240 Kb of 36-bit assembler code.} http://wwwdeanza.fhda.edu/TECO/faq.html http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/doc/teco.doc http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/whd/teco ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/pub/teco -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ Article 2081 of alt.sys.pdp10: Message-ID: <3A274C9C.28CC5805@ev1.net> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 23:00:43 -0800 From: Charles Richmond Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net Organization: Cannine Computer Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Help! TECO problems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: taydal-207-55-144-238.ev1.net X-Trace: 30 Nov 2000 23:03:51 -0600, taydal-207-55-144-238.ev1.net Lines: 40 Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.nwlink.com!nntp2.savvis.net!newsa.ev1.net Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:2081 Timothy Stark wrote: > > [snip...] [snip...] [snip...] > > I am looking for TECO manual for how to use it. > You can get a postscript version of the TECO manual at: or a plain ascii version of the manual at: If you would like a .pdf version, email me...I converted the postscript version to .pdf and will send you a copy as an attachment. Here are some other TECO related links: ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/doc/teco.doc ftp://ftp.mindlink.net/pub/teco ftp://ftp.mindlink.net/pub/teco/usc-archive/ ftp://ftp.usc.edu/pub/tecohttp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/ ftp://ftp.wimsey.com/pub/teco/usc-archive/ ftp://usc.edu/pub/teco/ ftp://ftp.dbit.com/pub/pdp10/tops10/teco124.mac {Note: this is the MACRO-10 sources, 240 Kb of 36-bit assembler code.} http://wwwdeanza.fhda.edu/TECO/faq.html http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/doc/teco.doc http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/whd/teco ftp://ftp.mindspring.com/pub/teco -- +-------------------------------------------------------------+ | Charles and Francis Richmond | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ Article 6288 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Zane H. Healy" Subject: TECO Manual Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Organization: Aracnet User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.19 (i686)) Lines: 14 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 03:24:25 EDT Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 07:24:25 GMT Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:6288 I figure I'm not the only one that's been wanting some TECO doc's. Thanks to someone on the CLASSICCMP mailing list pointing out that the TECO manual available at the Sunsite PDP-11 Archive is for the PDP-10, PDP-8, PDP-11, and VAX-11, I've now got it available on the PDP-10 Emulation webpage under Applications Documentation. I've got an Adobe Acrobat copy for easy printing as well as the original text copy. http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp10emu.html I've also got the TECO Pocket Guide for the PDP-8, PDP-10 and PDP-11. I'll be scanning it in the next time I have my scanner hooked up. Zane Article 6299 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!feed.textport.net!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!news-in-sanjose!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!sjcpnn01.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Zane H. Healy" Subject: Re: TECO Manual Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 References: <87ofnlugqe.fsf@prep.synonet.com> <3BBF242C.49883D18@trailing-edge.com> Organization: Aracnet User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.19 (i686)) Lines: 12 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 19:39:14 EDT Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 23:39:14 GMT Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:6299 Tim Shoppa wrote: > Didn't Megan Gentry once make the scans of the TECO pocket guide > available as *.JPG's? I know she made the following available, I don't know if she did any others. -r--r--r-- 1 root ftp 1904195 Dec 6 1998 gt40rc.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root ftp 2366570 Dec 6 1998 pdp15rc.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root ftp 1417136 Dec 6 1998 pdp8rc.tar.gz -r--r--r-- 1 root ftp 1095335 Dec 6 1998 wcsrc.tar.gz Zane Article: 18157 of alt.sys.pdp10 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Followup-To: yes Sender: cstacy@BONK Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Wanted: the SOUNDS of classic computing References: <20021012081012.541cdf13.steveo@eircom.net> <2215FC28C531B3E4.6C008F4B96544FE0.8C75BB1D05E1C828@lp.airnews.net> From: cstacy@dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) Message-ID: Lines: 54 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:25:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.154.220.42 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1034839523 141.154.220.42 (Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:25:23 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 03:25:23 EDT Xref: dfw-artgen alt.folklore.computers:101646 alt.sys.pdp10:18157 >>>>> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 04:47:34 GMT, Brian Inglis ("Brian") writes: Brian> On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:39:21 -0700, Mark Crispin Brian> wrote: >> On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>> For a company who developed the sexiest, most useful >>> debugger in the world, we sure failed when it came to higher >>> level debuggers. >> >> I do not believe that DEC developed DDT. Brian> Summary of Jargon file entry at: Brian> http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/DDT.html Brian> Peter Samson, compiler of the original TMRC lexicon, reports Brian> that he named `DDT' after a similar tool on the TX-0 computer, Brian> the direct ancestor of the PDP-1 built at MIT's Lincoln Lab in Brian> 1957. The debugger on that ground-breaking machine (the first Brian> transistorized computer) rejoiced in the name FLIT Brian> (FLexowriter Interrogation Tape). Brian> DDT was developed at MIT for the PDP-1 computer in 1961. Brian> At that time DDT stood for "DEC Debugging Tape". (The `tape' Brian> referred to was, incidentally, not magnetic but paper.) Brian> Since media other than tape are now frequently used, the more Brian> descriptive name "Dynamic Debugging Technique" has been adopted, Brian> retaining the DDT abbreviation. Brian> Under MIT's fabled ITS operating system, DDT (running under the Brian> alias HACTRN, a six-letterism for `Hack Translator') was also used Brian> as the shell or top level command language used to execute other Brian> programs. It's should also be noted that the DDT on ITS (on the PDP-6, and later, the PDP-10) was much more powerful than the version of DDT that was available on the DEC operating systems. It's the same story as TECO: invented at MIT on the PDP-1 and the PDP-6, ported to the PDP-10, and at some point fairly early on, a version made its way to DEC. It's the same small group of players from MIT and the same time-frame, by the way. Serious development on the program(s) continues for years at Project MAC, meanwhile DEC stays forever with the ancient version lacking most features. Most people remain unaware of the MIT version, which the MIT people think of as the "real" and normal version; MIT folks refer to the DEC versions with some disdain as "DEC DDT" and "DEC TECO". Meanwhile DEC wonders what is the noise about some weird version of DDT or TECO that they apparently have over at MIT. DEC also used their MACRO assembler, while MIT used a much fancier and more efficient one called MIDAS. (Unlike the above, I do not think these programs had a common ancestor, however.)