Article 4308 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!europa.clark.net!206.132.66.41!newsfeed-east.supernews.com!supernews.com!Supernews69!10.0.0.1!10.0.0.1 From: racerdave@net1plus.com (Dave Lyons) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Re: KL Console Commands Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:12:43 GMT Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here Lines: 34 Message-ID: <3629d82b.560141906@10.0.0.1> References: <3615172c.19558816@news.clark.net> <6vndpj$g5r$1@strato.ultra.net> <707o2n$7al$1@strato.ultra.net> <70c1qv$e48$1@shell3.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.200.157.81 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 908712733 P0XQBQRYN9D51D0C8C usenet58.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4308 On 17 Oct 1998 23:28:47 -0700, inwap@best.com (Smith and O'Halloran) wrote: > >Read-after-write is something you do when you do not fully trust the magnetic >media to store the bit patterns that were sent to it. This would be done by >the kernel, completely transparent to the user program. After the >kernel wrote the user's buffer to the disk, it would read the disk block >back (to somewhere else in the kernel virtual address space) to verify >that the data was recorded properly. Only then would the system call >return to the user indicating a successful write. Disk addressing was >not available to the user. > -Joe Tops-20 didn't quite do it that way. There was one problem. If you needed to do a read after write operation, and you were doing a write into the swap space on the disk, there was no way to assure that there would be a buffer available to read into, and the system could get into a deadlock condition. The decision to do a read-after-write was made on a case by case basis, based on the disk pack that you were going to. One bit for user data, one bit for swap space. User data was not the issue, but swap space was. So, the -20 used a feature of the RH-20 that said, if you read into mapped location 0, then do the transfer, check all the checksums and ECC codes, but dont write into memory. So, on the -20, it was really a "do I think I can read this block" test. Besides, the compare would have sucked the machine to the ground even if the lack of a buffer didnt cause a deadlock. Because of the way it was dome, it only took about 100 WORDS of memory to impliment the whole thing, code included. Performance when running in this mode pretty good, as each write only took an additional rotation of the disk pack. CHECKD was used to flip the read after write bits on and off. Article 4975 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.ultranet.com!d4 From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: How in Hell did the Great Unix to NT Migration begin?? Date: Mon, 03 May 99 13:38:09 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 59 Message-ID: <7gkf2m$pj9$1@antiochus.ultra.net> References: <371be3e4.0@newsfeed.one.net> <372B1D0A.2AB40504@MA.UltraNet.Com> <7ghaqi$hnv$2@ligarius.ultra.net> <372C95FD.8F899038@MA.UltraNet.Com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d4.dial-15.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 3 May 1999 15:24:06 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:129429 alt.sys.pdp10:4975 In article , weiner@world.std.com (Sam Weiner) wrote: >In article <372C95FD.8F899038@MA.UltraNet.Com>, >Alan H. Martin wrote: >>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> In article <372B1D0A.2AB40504@MA.UltraNet.Com>, >>> "Alan H. Martin" wrote: >>> >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>> >> >>> >> In article <3723DBA5.E5B2FF0@MA.UltraNet.Com>, >>> >> "Alan H. Martin" wrote: >>> >> >"Peter Hendén" wrote: >>> >> >> jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >>> >> >.... >>> >> >> >The reason I didn't like to use the -20 is because ...; it was >>> >> >> >too slow for my taste ... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Wasn't this dependent on whether your programs were >>> >> >> TOPS-10 (used PA1050) or TOPS-20 native. As I recall >>> >> >> (1977 - 80) we had a lot of users on our machine running >>> >> >> Interlisp-20 and a bunch of other native programs, and they >>> >> >> didn't get sluggish until long after the TOPS-10 progs did. >>... >>> >>... Just because one user used >>> >> something that did UUOs, should NOT have affected another user's >>> >> performance who is using JSYSes. ... >>... >>> Reread what I wrote, Alan. I would use the -20 in the early morning >>> until somebody else logged on (I didn't have to know about the >>> person..I could feel the system degrade). Then, about that time, >>> TW would give the TOPS10 systems up for timesharing and I would >>> move to the -10. If the -20 system was so great, how come >>> builds were taken over to the -10 (or didn't you know about that?) >> >>Could you sense whether the person was running native or compatibility apps? > >TOPS-10 was definitely able to support more users in general but perhaps >some of what Barb experienced was from early versions of assemblers/linkers >which hadn't been modified to use native TOPS-20 I/O? I'm not sure of >the timeframe (plus I was mostly a TOPS-10 person before LSBU) but I think >it took a while for TOPS-20 aware tools to be made available. > >TOPS-20 monitor builds were done on TOPS-20, Officially, they were done on the -20. It was with the advent of V6 LINK that the -20 guys had to build on the -20 and not sneak over to the -10 (but some of them still assembled over on the -10). I'm not talking about tasks done by Release Engineering, Sam. > I'm not sure about the language products. After they got their own machine, the builds were done on the -20 for the -20. /BAH Article 4991 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.ultranet.com!d6 From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: How in Hell did the Great Unix to NT Migration begin?? Date: Tue, 04 May 99 09:18:13 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <7gmk7g$aq5$2@antiochus.ultra.net> References: <371be3e4.0@newsfeed.one.net> <7gj8co$flt$1@shell3.ba.best.com> <7gmi6h$cl3$1@shell3.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d6.dial-12.mbo.ma.ultra.net X-Complaints-To: abuse@ultra.net X-Ultra-Time: 4 May 1999 11:04:16 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: news3.best.com alt.folklore.computers:129486 alt.sys.pdp10:4991 In article <7gmi6h$cl3$1@shell3.ba.best.com>, inwap@best.com (Joe Smith) wrote: >In article , >Daniel Seagraves wrote: >>Did this work the opposite way? Could you use a TOPS-20 to build a TOPS-10? > >Should have. The goal was that the TOPS-10 build process >was self-contained. All the source files and UNV files >(similar to "include files") came from the current directory; >no system library files were included in the Monitor. On our systems, it just wasn't practical. Besides the user response time being abyssmal (I'm comparing it to an SMP TOPS10), the setup so that the universals and RELs, etc. was almost beyond source management techniques. It also didn't help that the -20 group wouldn't take our updated sources (e.g., UUOSYM, MACTEN, SCAN) and ship them. They always stayed with some stuff that was so old, nothing would have worked. I managed to solve that problem but not with a guarantee that the process would continue to work. Another little project that I never could get off the ground. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. Article 6350 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-10 Emulators Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:18:43 -0800 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <389b6dbf$0$226@nntp1.ba.best.com> <20000206093051.23572.00001532@ng-fu1.aol.com> <389dd17f$0$216@nntp1.ba.best.com> <883p09$l91$1@mushi.colo.neosoft.com> <5466vtk99s.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 950548728 16760 (None) 140.142.17.38 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: pchar To: Bill Westfield In-Reply-To: <5466vtk99s.fsf@flipper.cisco.com> Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:6350 On 12 Feb 2000, Bill Westfield wrote: > >> In TOPS-20, any KL monitor would run on any KL system; > Not true. In particular, I think you'd run into problems running a vanilla > tops20 monitor on a computer with a "large file system" (a stanford hack, > IIRC - rather widely deployed. More than one RP07 per structure - what a > concept...) I know all about that "hack". I wrote it. [Although the obvious change was certainly done by others.] But that's something that only people with sources could do. For the benefit of everyone else; the "hack" involved moving DSKNB from 1B15 to 1B13. This doubled the disk address space from 20 to 21 bits, and made it possible to have more than one RP07 in a structure. If you also moved DSKAB from 1B14 to 1B12, you would quadruple the disk address space from 20 to 22 bits; however, the resulting filesystems (even single-pack RP06s) would be incompatible from DEC monitors. The final hack (which I didn't do) was to increase the disk record size (what DEC called "sector size") from 128 words to 512 words. Since TOPS-20 always does things in 512 word pages, there's no need to keep the tiny record size from TOPS-10. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 6359 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!207.69.128.180!alderson From: alderson@netcom2.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: TOPS-20's install tape... Date: 18 Feb 2000 01:30:51 GMT Organization: NETCOM On-line services Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: <20000213032711.02311.00000277@ng-cg1.aol.com> Reply-To: alderson@netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.b7.09.66 X-Server-Date: 18 Feb 2000 01:34:57 GMT In-reply-to: madbeing@aol.coms1x's message of 13 Feb 2000 08:27:11 GMT Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:6359 In article <20000213032711.02311.00000277@ng-cg1.aol.com> madbeing@aol.coms1x (MadBeing) writes: >If you want to initialize a PS filesystem, you'll need to start the MONITR.EXE >at a different entry point. I'd have to look at the ddt output to be sure of >the address but I believe its in the 145 address range (could be 146 or 147). >The other entry points did things like warmstart the system, coldstart without >reloading, and I believe the keepalive crash vector was in there too. Actually, on a DEC monitor it's location 143. 147 is the usual startup location, and 140 gets you into EDDT. Umm, another entry point (145?) was also EDDT, and I don't remember what the others were. Never used them, only saw them in the sources. Oh, good, I had a copy of the DEC version of STG.MAC online: SVECT=:140 ;MANUAL START TRANSFER VECTOR LOC SVECT EVDDT:: JRST DDTZ ;EDDT JRST SYSDDT ;RESET AND GO TO EDDT EVDDT2::JRST DDTZ ;COPY OF EDDT IN CASE OTHER CLOBBERED EVSLOD::JRST SYSLOD ;INITIALIZE DISK FILE SYSTEM EVVSM:: JRST SYSVSM ;VERIFY SWAPABLE MONITOR ON STARTUP. EVRST:: JRST SYSRST ;RESTART EVLDGO::JRST SYSGO ;RELOAD AND START EVGO:: JRST SYSGO1 ;START So 140 and 142 are the "start EDDT" entry points, 143 is the disk format entry, and 147 is the usual startup. STG.MAC was the only module shipped in source to non-source Tops-20 customers: This allowed the customer to customize terminal types and the like, and define a few other run-time parameters. Assemble, load with the .REL files, and then "Cello!", your very own monitor! Rich Alderson Last LOTS Tops-20 Systems Programmer, 1984-1991 Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170) Customer Advocacy, XKL LLC, 1993-now last name @ XKL dot COM Chief systems administrator, XKL LLC, 1998-now Article 6358 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!vnetnews.value.net!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!europa.netcrusader.net!195.27.83.146!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!207.69.128.180!alderson From: alderson@netcom2.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: TOPS-20's install tape... Date: 18 Feb 2000 01:19:11 GMT Organization: NETCOM On-line services Lines: 62 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: alderson@netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.b7.09.66 X-Server-Date: 18 Feb 2000 01:23:16 GMT In-reply-to: Daniel Seagraves's message of Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:30:22 -0600 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:6358 In article Daniel Seagraves writes: >When I say G(ET FILE) MTA0: to the miniexec prompt (MX> from MONITR.EXE), >is TOPS20 going to try getting something from a DUMPER saveset, or just >read the next file on the tape into memory? Or does it do something else? The layout on DEC Tops-20 installation tapes (and emergency backup tapes, for the same reason) is as follows: MONITR.EXE EXEC.EXE DLUSER.EXE DUMPER.EXE When you have booted from the tape, and are in the Mini-EXEC, your G MTA0: will bring in the EXEC, and start you up as OPERATOR. The DEC documentation then tells you to do the following: @GET MTA0: @START DLUSER> STRUCTURE PS: DLUSER> LOAD MTA0: DLUSER> QUIT @GET MTA0: @START DUMPER> but that loses due to a bug in DLUSER: It tests a byte with BIN%, then uses the BKJFN% JSYS to "unread" the byte--but BKJFN% is only defined to work with *disk* files. Better to do the following: @COPY MTA0: DLUSER.EXE @COPY MTA0: USERS.TXT @COPY MTA0: DUMPER.EXE @DLUSER DLUSER> ST PS: DLUSER> LOAD USERS.TXT DLUSER> QUIT @DUMPER (I discovered this lossage years ago, while working at Stanford. I don't know how long it had been broken.) XKL, as it happens, made the DUMPER functionality to put DDBs (Directory Data Blocks) into the saveset really work, so we stopped using the DLUSER program. Our tapes now look like MONITR.EXE EXEC.EXE DUMPER.EXE but none of our customers saw that improvement. Rich Alderson Last LOTS Tops-20 Systems Programmer, 1984-1991 Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170) Customer Advocacy, XKL LLC, 1993-now last name @ XKL dot COM Chief systems administrator, XKL LLC, 1998-now Article 6366 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: "Alan H. Martin" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Anyone have a list of TOPS-20 commands? Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:12:04 -0500 Lines: 35 Message-ID: <38ADFBF4.81CEDD8@MA.UltraNet.Com> References: <38823BB8.EE5E357D@bellatlantic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: QXPbdFqCiObKflL3O7H+uDmjsZcrES64xA14ExChprw= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Feb 2000 02:12:45 GMT To: s2521@bellatlantic.net X-Accept-Language: en,en-US,en-GB,es X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:6366 me wrote: > > Does anyone have a list of the TOPS-20 command processor valid > commands? I could kill myself for throwing mine away years ago. XKL Systems TOAD, TOPS-20 Monitor 7(102560)-1 ... Toad@ ? Command, one of the following: ACCESS ADVISE APPEND ARCHIVE ASSIGN ATTACH BACKSPACE BLANK BREAK BUILD CANCEL CD CLOSE COMPILE CONNECT CONTINUE COPY CREATE CREF CSAVE DAYTIME DDT DEASSIGN DEBUG DECLARE DEFINE DELETE DEPOSIT DETACH DIRECTORY DISABLE DISCARD DISMOUNT DO ECHO EDIT ENABLE END-ACCESS EOF ERUN EXAMINE EXECUTE EXPUNGE FDIRECTORY FINGER FORK FREEZE GET HELP HISTORY INFORMATION KEEP KJOB KMIC LOAD LOGOUT LWPRINT MAIL MAP MERGE MODIFY MOUNT ORIGINAL POP PRESERVE PRINT PUSH QDIRECTORY R RDIRECTORY RECEIVE REDO REENTER REFUSE REMARK RENAME RESET RETRIEVE REWIND RUN SAVE SEND SET SKIP START SUBMIT SYSTAT TAKE TALK TDIRECTORY TERMINAL TRANSLATE TYPE UNATTACH UNDECLARE UNDELETE UNKEEP UNLOAD UNMAP UPDATE VDIRECTORY WDIRECTORY or system program name Toad@ Enjoy, /AHM -- Alan Howard Martin AMartin@MA.UltraNet.Com Article 6826 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: What's BUGHLT DDMPNR? Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:37:33 -0800 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 952119456 14158 (None) 140.142.17.35 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: gargoyle To: Daniel Seagraves In-Reply-To: Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:6826 On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, Daniel Seagraves wrote: > From TOPS-20. Where's a list of BUGHLTs? "DDMP Not Run for too long" This bughlt comes from the scheduler. It used to be called J0NRUN (Job 0 Not RUN for too long). DDMP is the system fork (job 0 process 0) which, among other things, keeps the disk updated from changes made in the virtual memory system. It's scheduled just like any other fork. If it hasn't looped back to update its "last run" timer, either it is hung (maybe the swapping disk went offline) or the system is taking so many interrupts that processes aren't running. I/O bus devices such as the AN20 tended to do that. If you have EDDT loaded, you can try proceeding the system by jumping around the test, particularly if you know the cause of the problem and have fixed it. Bughlts are documented in the BUGS.MAC in the monitor sources. Any V4 monitor or later had BUGS.MAC. -- Mark -- * RCW 19.190 notice: This email address is located in Washington State. * * Unsolicited commercial email may be billed $500 per message. * Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article 8222 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!europa.netcrusader.net!194.176.220.129!newsfeed.icl.net!news.algonet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!uab.ericsson.se!news.sics.se!not-for-mail From: Per Danielsson Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Replacing the EXEC in TOPS-20 (was Re: ooh, a *real* flamewar:) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:45:15 +0200 Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science Lines: 16 Message-ID: <38FC2EAB.E005B2F8@sics.se> References: <38da49e6_2@news.wizvax.net> <8beb7i$707$1@citadel.in.taronga.com> <38DB0F01.C677EB27@netinsight.se> <8bg09v$1bba$1@citadel.in.taronga.com> <8bjeei$1bk$1@199.201.191.2> <38F94687.95C01347@MA.UltraNet.Com> <38FB2218.D51AC6CB@sics.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: libra.sics.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: not.sics.se 956051098 15071 193.10.135.5 (18 Apr 2000 09:44:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@not.sics.se NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Apr 2000 09:44:58 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp8:5306 alt.sys.pdp10:8222 alt.folklore.computers:155278 Mark Crispin wrote: > 100 lines??? What was in that program? I count a maximum of about 20 > lines, including the filename parsing... The main code is about 35 lines. The rest is mostly argument blocks for CRJOB and COMND (and GTJFN). The code is at . It could probably be improved. If a minumum of lines is a good thing it could definitely be improved. -- Per Danielsson pd@sics.se Swedish Institute of Computer Science, PO Box 1263, SE-164 29 KISTA, SWEDEN N59.24.20, E17.56.53 "Why not? Yeah." Article 8511 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news1.best.com!uninett.no!CensurBot.NetScum.Dk!newsfeedZ.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!news.algonet.se!algonet!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!news.mindspring.com!alderson From: alderson@netcom2.netcom.com (Richard M. Alderson III) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11,vmsnet.pdp-11,comp.os.rsts,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: PDP-11 9-Track Tapes Date: 09 May 2000 22:41:30 GMT Organization: NETCOM On-line services Lines: 27 Distribution: inet Message-ID: References: <8epj68$4nf$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> <3910228B.49615006@trailing-edge.com> <8eq82h$qdu$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <3910717C.768C59DE@trailing-edge.com> Reply-To: alderson@netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.b7.09.66 X-Server-Date: 9 May 2000 22:41:49 GMT In-reply-to: Tim Shoppa's message of Wed, 03 May 2000 18:35:40 -0400 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp11:6772 vmsnet.pdp-11:9806 comp.os.rsts:694 alt.sys.pdp10:8511 In article <3910717C.768C59DE@trailing-edge.com> Tim Shoppa writes: > TOPS-20 never was good at dealing with arbitrary tape formats. If someone > wants to correct me, and show me how to make a "tape image" program under > TOPS-20, I'd gladly listen. But I've had TOPS-20 system programmers tell me > that if you do unbuffered I/O, only core-dump format is possible, which means > converting the data, and if you use buffered I/O, you can't have a buffer big > enough to handle the largest records in core-dump format. This is all true. The problem is that tape buffers are taken from the Job Status Block, a monitor data structure, and are limited to 20 pages. A DUMPER-format tape written at the maximum blocking factor comes out to 24 pages per block if read back in as 8-bit bytes, so you can't get an arbitrary tape-copy program to work on Tops-20 due to size limitations. I once set out to create a version of Tops-20 with additional space in the JSB for tape buffers, to at least allow the copying of maximally sized DUMPER tapes (so that I could have more than one copy of a bunch of stuff). It's hard, a lot harder than it ought to be... Rich Alderson Last LOTS Tops-20 Systems Programmer, 1984-1991 Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170) Customer Advocacy, XKL LLC, 1993-2000 last name @ XKL dot COM Chief systems administrator, XKL LLC, 1998-now Article 8803 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.tufts.edu!uunet!ffx.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader0.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <392931A1.167E4AC7@trailing-edge.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 13:09:53 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.0 DEC 3000 Model 300L) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: TOPS-20 V4.0 tapes for the PDP-10 archives Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader0.news.uu.net 959015395 4089 63.73.218.130 Xref: news3.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:8803 alt.folklore.computers:157604 Good news - The "INSTALL" and "DISTRIBUTION" tapes for KS10 (2020) TOPS-20 V4 arrived here today. ZIPped exact tape images and the individual files extracted for browsing will be available, for those eligible under the DEC 36-bit hobbyist license, at http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ sometime later today. Oh, happy day! The tapes, almost 20 years old now, read perfectly, despite some worries by the owner about less-than-ideal storage conditions. There was a slight bit of gummy tape syndrome on the second tape, but it was very very mild. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Article 4682 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail From: Rich Alderson Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: tops-20 on ts10 install probs log Date: 28 Apr 2001 17:25:25 -0400 Organization: Systems Administration, XKL LLC, Redmond WA 98052 Lines: 32 Sender: alderson+news@panix3.panix.com Message-ID: References: <988479590.755499@dns2.serv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 988493125 28804 166.84.0.228 (28 Apr 2001 21:25:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Apr 2001 21:25:25 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4682 Patrick Scheible writes: > Here's a log of my attempt to install TOPS-20 v.4.1 on the ts10. As you > can see, it does a lot, but there's still some problems. > > I'm using the TS10 from the tar file, not the very latest from CVS. > > The first big question is, when I run dluser, why does it come back with > a DUMPER prompt? Is this a problem with the tape? The problem is that you did not rewind the tape before doing the COPY commands, so you have saved DLUSER as 2020-MONMED, the DLUSER data file as EXEC, and DUMPER as DLUSER. > And, second, what are the sequence errors when I tried to restore using > DUMPER? Try getting the files right, and see if these recur. > Smaller questions are: > What's the format of the vdir command output, especially the middle > numbers 32 16384(36) in this example: > DLUSER.EXE.1;P777752 32 16384(36) 22-Apr-90 12:49:09 OPERATOR ..; () -- Rich Alderson alderson+news@panix.com "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." --Death, of the Endless Article 4694 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.slurp.net!not-for-mail From: Patrick Scheible Subject: Re: tops-20 on ts10 install probs log Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Reply-To: kkt@serv.net User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990413 ("Endemoniada") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.2-RELEASE (i386)) Message-ID: <988791670.885387@dns2.serv.net> Cache-Post-Path: dns2.serv.net!unknown@itchy.serv.net X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 544 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 07:53:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.201.191.2 X-Trace: newsfeed.slurp.net 988790005 199.201.191.2 (Wed, 02 May 2001 02:53:25 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 02:53:25 CDT Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4694 Here's the latest installment. The file sizes were a great help, Rich. It seems there are two additional files at the beginning of the 4.1 installation tape, so it looks like this: file1 file2 monitr exec dluser users.txt dumper first save set etc. Dluser seemed to work as expected. Now I'm up to Dumper, which gives a device error when I attempt to restore. Also, I got myself logged out, and it wants a password to get back into the operator account. What is the password, or how do I set it the first time I logged in? Should the pseudo-hard disk file rpa0: be bootable after copying out the files? It says device not bootable. Here's the log. -- Patrick ts10> touch tops20-41.dsk ts10> ./ks10 -f ks10-t20.cfg Welcome to TS10 Emulator v0.7 (Alpha) Unit uba: had been created. Addr=776700 Mask=000077 IntBR=6 IntVec=254 Addr=772440 Mask=000037 IntBR=6 IntVec=224 Device RPA0: had been created. Device RPA1: had been created. Device MTA: had been created. Device MTA0: had been created. Device MTA1: had been created. Device MTB: had been created. Device MTB0: had been created. Device MTB1: had been created. Unit rha0 had been initialized. Unit rpa0 had been initialized. Unit rha1 had been initialized. Unit mta had been initialized. Unit mtb had been initialized. Unit 0 dType RP06 Unit rpa0 had been attached with 'tops20-41.dsk' file. Unit 0 dType TU45 Unit mta0 had been attached with '../../pdp10-tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap' file. Debug Console had been turned on. TS10> boot mta0: Booting MTA0... Now running... MTBOOT>/l MTBOOT>/g143 [FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TYPE "?" TO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS.] DO YOU WANT TO REPLACE THE FILE SYSTEM ON THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? Y DO YOU WANT TO DEFINE THE PUBLIC STRUCTURE? ? ANSWER "Y" OR "N" Y HOW MANY PACKS ARE IN THIS STRUCTURE: ? NULL ANSWER NOT ALLOWED, RETYPE ANSWER: 1 ON WHICH "CHANNEL,UNIT" IS LOGICAL PACK # 0 MOUNTED: ? NULL ANSWER NOT ALLOWED, RETYPE ANSWER: 0,0 DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SWAPPING SPACE? ? ANSWER "Y" OR "N" Y DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE FRONT END FILE SYSTEM? Y DO YOU WANT THE DEFAULT SIZE BOOTSTRAP AREA? Y [STRUCTURE "PS" SUCCESSFULLY DEFINED] [PS MOUNTED] ?PS UNIT 0 HAS NO BAT BLOCKS. DO YOU WANT TO WRITE A SET OF PROTOTYPE BAT BLOCKS? Y %%NO SETSPD System restarting, wait... ENTER CURRENT DATE AND TIME: ? INVALID, PLEASE TRY AGAIN IN FORM MMM-DD-YY HHMM: ? INVALID, PLEASE TRY AGAIN IN FORM MMM-DD-YY HHMM: ? INVALID, PLEASE TRY AGAIN IN FORM MMM-DD-YY HHMM: MAY-02-90 1204 YOU HAVE ENTERED WEDNESDAY, 2-MAY-1990 12:04PM, IS THIS CORRECT (Y,N) (Y OR N) N ENTER CURRENT DATE AND TIME: ? INVALID, PLEASE TRY AGAIN IN FORM MMM-DD-YY HHMM: MAY-02-90 0004 YOU HAVE ENTERED WEDNESDAY, 2-MAY-1990 12:04AM, IS THIS CORRECT (Y,N) (Y OR N) Y WHY RELOAD? NEW ACCOUNTS-TABLE.BIN NOT FOUND - ACCOUNT VALIDATION IS DISABLED RUNNING DDMP NO SYSJOB NO EXEC MX> MX> MX>GET FILE MTA0: INTERRUPT AT 0 MX> MX>GET FILE MTA0: ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:06:03 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** MX> MX> MX> MX> MX> MX>START TOPS-20 Command processor 5.1(1354) ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:06:22 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSF @ @ @ER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ENA $ $REWIND MTA0: $ $COPY MTA0: F1 MTA0: => F1..1 [OK] $ $COPY MTA0: F2 MTA0: => F2..1 [OK] $ $COPY MTA0: F3 MTA0: => F3..1 [OK] $ $ $ $COPY MTA0: F4 MTA0: => F4..1 [OK] $ $COPY MTA0: F5 MTA0: => F5..1 [OK] $ $COPY MTA0: F6 MTA0: => F6..1 [OK] $ $COPY MTA0: F7 MTA0: => F7..1 [OK] $ $VDIR PS: F1..1;P777700 12 6144(36) 2-May-90 00:07:06 OPERATOR F2..1;P777700 6 3072(36) 2-May-90 00:07:15 OPERATOR F3..1;P777700 326 166912(36) 2-May-90 00:07:19 OPERATOR F4..1;P777700 102 52224(36) 2-May-90 00:07:32 OPERATOR F5..1;P777700 7 3584(36) 2-May-90 00:07:42 OPERATOR F6..1;P777700 1 155(36) 2-May-90 00:07:52 OPERATOR F7..1;P777700 32 16384(36) 2-May-90 00:07:57 OPERATOR Total of 486 pages in 7 files $ $ $ $R F5 ?CANNOT FIND ERROR MESSAGE FILE ??Error message not found for error 600104 - "F5" $ $VDIR %CANNOT FIND ERROR MESSAGE FILE ??Error message not found for error 600114 - $ $REWIND MTA0: $ $COPY MTA0: FOO MTA0: => FOO..1 [OK] $ $COPY MTA0: F00 MTA0: => F00..1 [OK] $ $COPY MTA0: MONITR.EXE MTA0: => MONITR.EXE.1 [OK] $ $COPY MTA0: MONITR XXX $COPY MTA0: EXEC.EXE MTA0: => EXEC.EXE.1 [OK] $ $COPY MTA0: DLUSER.EXE MTA0: => DLUSER.EXE.1 [OK] $ $COY MTA0: < XXX $COPY MTA0: USERS.TXT MTA0: => USERS.TXT.1 [OK] $ $COY M XXX $COPY MTA0: DUMPER.EXE MTA0: => DUMPER.EXE.1 [OK] $ $VDIR PS: DLUSER.EXE.1;P777752 7 3584(36) 2-May-90 00:13:40 OPERATOR DUMPER.EXE.1;P777752 32 16384(36) 2-May-90 00:15:26 OPERATOR Total of 39 pages in 2 files $ $VDIR PS: ERROR.SYS.1;P777752 1 144(36) 2-May-90 00:06:22 OPERATOR EXEC.EXE.1;P777752 102 52224(36) 2-May-90 00:12:59 OPERATOR MONITR.EXE.1;P777752 326 166912(36) 2-May-90 00:12:22 OPERATOR Total of 429 pages in 3 files $ $ $DLUSER DLUSER> DLUSER>STRUCTURE PS: DLUSER> DLUSER>LOAD USERS.TXT DONE. DLUSER> DLUSER>EXIT $ $DUMPER DUMPER> DUMPER>TAPE MTA0: DUMPER> DUMPER>RESTORE PS:<*>*.*.* ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:20:21 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ?Sequence error, record 2, continuing. %Tape does not start with header, continuing... ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:21:32 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:21:50 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:24:44 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:25:02 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:25:25 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ******************** *BUGINF ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:25:43 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ^C $ $ ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:26:10 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTERED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** WIND^H^H^H^H XXX $REWIND MTA0: ?Device MTA0: open on JFN 4 %Close JFN? 4 MTA0: [OK] $ $DUMPER DUMPER> DUMPER>TAPE MTA0: DUMPER> DUMPER>DENSITY 1600-DPI ?CANNOT FIND ERROR MESSAGE FILE DUMPER> DUMPER>? command name one of the following: ABEFORE ACCOUNT ASINCE BEFORE CHECK CHECKSUM CONTINUE CREATE DENSITY DIRECTORIES EOT EXIT FILES FORMAT HELP INDUSTRY INITIAL INTERCHANGE LIST MBEFORE MSINCE NO PARITY PRINT PROTECTION QUIT RESTORE RETRIEVE REWIND SAVE SET SILENCE SINCE SKIP SSNAME SUPERSEDE TAPE UNLOAD DUMPER> DUMPER> DUMPER> DUMPER> DUMPER>DENSITY 1600-BPI DUMPER> DUMPER>RESTORE PS:<*>*.*.* ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:29:23 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:29:40 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:29:57 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:30:15 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. ^C $ $ ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:26:10 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTERED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** WIND^H^H^H^H XXX $REWIND MTA0: ?Device MTA0: open on JFN 4 %Close JFN? 4 MTA0: [OK] $ $DUMPER DUMPER> DUMPER>TAPE MTA0: DUMPER> DUMPER>DENSITY 1600-DPI ?CANNOT FIND ERROR MESSAGE FILE DUMPER> DUMPER>? command name one of the following: ABEFORE ACCOUNT ASINCE BEFORE CHECK CHECKSUM CONTINUE CREATE DENSITY DIRECTORIES EOT EXIT FILES FORMAT HELP INDUSTRY INITIAL INTERCHANGE LIST MBEFORE MSINCE NO PARITY PRINT PROTECTION QUIT RESTORE RETRIEVE REWIND SAVE SET SILENCE SINCE SKIP SSNAME SUPERSEDE TAPE UNLOAD DUMPER> DUMPER> DUMPER> DUMPER> DUMPER>DENSITY 1600-BPI DUMPER> DUMPER>RESTORE PS:<*>*.*.* ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:29:23 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:29:40 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:29:57 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:30:15 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTED *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** ?Device error, possible incorrect density. Type to try again. ^C $ $ ******************** *BUGINF "OVRDTA" at 2-May-90 00:30:43 *PHYSIO - OVERDUE TRANSFER ABORTELOD *Additional data: 1, 0, 0 ******************** GOUT Over permanent storage allocation by 255 page(s). Killed Job 1, User OPERATOR, Account OPERATOR, TTY 42, at 2-May-90 00:34:19, Used 0:00:22 in 0:29:22 TOPS-2020 SMALL SYSTEM, TOPS-20 Monitor 4.1(5471) @ @ @^C @UP ?Unrecognized command - CANNOT FIND ERROR MESSAGE FILE ??Error message not found for error 602046 - "UP" @UPTIME ?Unrecognized command - CANNOT FIND ERROR MESSAGE FILE ??Error message not found for error 602046 - "UPTIME" ^C @LOGIN OPERATOR ?Incorrect password @ @LOGIN OPERATOR ?Incorrect password @ @^Z ?Unrecognized command - CANNOT FIND ERROR MESSAGE FILE ??Error message not found for error 602047 - " Autologout Killed Job 1, TTY 42, at 2-May-90 00:39:23, Used 0:00:01 in 0:04:33 TOPS-2020 SMALL SYSTEM, TOPS-20 Monitor 4.1(5471) ^C @ @enable finger ^C^C^C ^Z Suspended ts10> kill %1 [1] Terminated ./ks10 -f ks10-t20.cfg ts10> ./ks10 -f ks10-t20.cfg Welcome to TS10 Emulator v0.7 (Alpha) Unit uba: had been created. Addr=776700 Mask=000077 IntBR=6 IntVec=254 Addr=772440 Mask=000037 IntBR=6 IntVec=224 Device RPA0: had been created. Device RPA1: had been created. Device MTA: had been created. Device MTA0: had been created. Device MTA1: had been created. Device MTB: had been created. Device MTB0: had been created. Device MTB1: had been created. Unit rha0 had been initialized. Unit rpa0 had been initialized. Unit rha1 had been initialized. Unit mta had been initialized. Unit mtb had been initialized. Unit 0 dType RP06 Unit rpa0 had been attached with 'tops20-41.dsk' file. Unit 0 dType TU45 Unit mta0 had been attached with '../../pdp10-tapes/bb-d867e-bm_tops20_v41_2020_instl.tap' file. Debug Console had been turned on. TS10> boot rpa0: Booting RPA0... [Reading first HOM block...] Device RPA0: Not bootable TS10> boot mta0: Booting MTA0... Now running... ;; no response ^Z Suspended ts10> kill %1 [1] Terminated ./ks10 -f ks10-t20.cfg ts10> Article 4696 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!tethys.csu.net!nntp.csufresno.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: Timothy Stark Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: tops-20 on ts10 install probs log Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:19:25 -0000 Message-ID: References: <988791670.885387@dns2.serv.net> User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.19 (i686)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 21 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4696 Pat: It looks like that you have a problem with stalling CTY device. You need the latest version to resolve the problem. I will work on it with overdue errors that your log showed that. Also, because I do not have a copy of software installation guide with TOPS-20 v4.1, I was unable to debug it for TS10 emulator until now. Thank you for let us know about your log file. I will look into that and resolve a problem with overdue errors according to your log file. Thank you! -- Tim Stark -- Timothy Stark <>< Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible) Article 4700 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail From: Rich Alderson Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: tops-20 on ts10 install probs log Date: 02 May 2001 15:31:52 -0400 Organization: Systems Administration, XKL LLC, Redmond WA 98052 Lines: 36 Sender: alderson+news@panix3.panix.com Message-ID: References: <988791670.885387@dns2.serv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 988831911 27737 166.84.0.228 (2 May 2001 19:31:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 May 2001 19:31:51 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4700 Patrick Scheible writes: > The file sizes were a great help, Rich. It seems there are two additional > files at the beginning of the 4.1 installation tape, so it looks like this: > file1 > file2 > monitr > exec > dluser > users.txt > dumper > first save set > etc. Umm. I vaguely remember something about this (I've never worked on a KS10). I think the installation tape includes loadable code for the 8080 frontend, and that's what the two extra files would be, at a guess. > Dluser seemed to work as expected. Now I'm up to Dumper, which gives > a device error when I attempt to restore. > Also, I got myself logged out, and it wants a password to get back > into the operator account. What is the password, or how do I set it > the first time I logged in? The default operator password on a newly installed Tops-20 system is "DEC-20". > Should the pseudo-hard disk file rpa0: be bootable after copying out > the files? It says device not bootable. I guess Tim Stark will take a look at this. -- Rich Alderson alderson+news@panix.com "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." --Death, of the Endless Article 4702 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!news1.best.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeed.cs.wisc.edu!loops.cs.wisc.edu!uchinews!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!140.142.17.34.MISMATCH!news.u.washington.edu!Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU!mrc From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: tops-20 on ts10 install probs log Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:07:18 -0700 Organization: Networks & Distributed Computing Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <988791670.885387@dns2.serv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 988841242 15452 (None) 140.142.17.39 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu NNTP-Posting-User: pat To: kkt@serv.net In-Reply-To: <988791670.885387@dns2.serv.net> Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:4702 On Wed, 2 May 2001, Patrick Scheible wrote: > It seems there are two > additional files at the beginning of the 4.1 installation tape KS10 microcode bootstrap All bootable KS tapes (including diagnostics and ITS) start with these two files, and the 8080 tape bootstrap command expects them there. They aren't on a KL installation tape, because the microcode and bootstrap (as well as the front-end OS) is on floppies. On a KS, the front-end OS is in ROM. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. Article: 17596 of alt.sys.pdp10 Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!panix!not-for-mail From: Rich Alderson Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Help! TOPS-20 v4.1 - Password problems Date: 02 Aug 2002 20:49:38 -0400 Organization: Systems Administration, XKL LLC, Redmond WA 98052 Lines: 55 Sender: alderson+news@panix5.panix.com Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: panix5.panix.com X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1028335778 29740 166.84.1.5 (3 Aug 2002 00:49:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 00:49:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Xref: dfw-artgen alt.sys.pdp10:17596 sword7@speakeasy.org writes: > Does anyone have know how to reset admin password for OPERATOR account? I > forget my admin password on my TOPS-20 v4.1 disk image that I installed some > time ago. > With my latest version of TS10, I was able boot TOPS-20 v4.1 but forgot my > password when I attemped to enter 'LOGIN OPERATOR ' at @ prompt. The canonical way is to boot from the console specifying the DDT start address. (Locations 140 and 142 *both* point to DDT in the DEC standard monitor; the Stanford monitor follows suit.) Once in DDT, put -1 in DBUGSW and set a break- point on GOTSWM ("GOT SWappable Monitor"): DBUGSW/ 0 -1 GOTSWM$B $P When you hit the breakpoint, remove it (0$1B), and go to .LOGIN (the start of the LOGIN% JSYS code). Type linefeeds until you find the call CALL CHKPSW (which *might* look like "PUSHJ P,CHKPSW" but I don't think your monitor is that old). JFCL both the call and the following instruction (password check skip-returns on success), and proceed the monitor. .LOGIN/ JSP CX,.STKST .LOGIN+1/ T3 .LOGIN+2/ MOVEM T1,-2(P) .LOGIN+3/ SKIPGE CX,GTOKPR+4 .LOGIN+4/ SKIPA .LOGIN+5/ TLNN CX,200000 . . . .LOGIN+51/ TRNE T1,600000 .LOGIN+52/ JRST LOGI1# LOGI2#/ SKIPE T2,CRJFLG LOGI2#+1/ TRNN T2,1 LOGI2#+2/ SKIPA LOGI2#+3/ JRST LOGI1# CHKPVL#/ CALL CHKPSW CHKPVL#+1/ JRST LOGI3# CHKPVL#+2/ MOVEM T2,-3(P) (There is no guarantee that either LOGI2 or CHKPVL will occur in your monitor, depending on its age. Start from .LOGIN and you'll win.) You can then log in without a password as any privileged account and set the password for OPERATOR and any other thing you might wish to do. -- Rich Alderson alderson+news@panix.com "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." --Death, of the Endless