Article 5510 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.terminals,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: SMG vs. windows telnets Date: 27 Jul 1999 21:44:11 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 31 Message-ID: <7nl97b$neg$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7n9rhi$26g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu> <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com> <7nalqp$5vm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <379E1C79.57D8@smarts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 933111851 24016 128.59.39.2 (27 Jul 1999 21:44:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 1999 21:44:11 GMT Xref: news3.best.com comp.os.vms:130488 comp.terminals:7525 alt.sys.pdp10:5510 In article <379E1C79.57D8@smarts.com>, Jerry Leichter wrote: : ... : The second generation of the VT100 family was cost-reduced, and had no : options: The VT101 was essentially a VT100 without AVO, and the VT102 : was essentially a VT100 *with* AVO. A VT101 couldn't be upgraded to a : VT102. (VT101's were quite rare.) As I recall, the VT10x added some : very minor stuff to the original VT100, but what it was, I couldn't now : tell you. : I can. The VT101, which we bought truckloads of here at Columbia U as soon as it came out, added local echo. This let it access our IBM mainframe through the 3705 (half duplex) front end. Prior to the VT101, our VT100s could only access our PDP-11s and DEC-20s. The VT100 and 101, however, were both quite painful to use with EMACS on the low-speed dialup connections of the day (300bps, maybe 1200). The VT102 added the crucial feature: character insert/delete. It's hard to imagine in this day & age of gigabit Ethernets etc what a HUGE difference that made. On a related nostalgic note: The VT100's smooth scrolling feature was quite amazing to everyone when they first saw it, so much so that the VT100 became quite the status symbol. As soon as we hooked a few of them up to the campus "network" (a big serial port switch) and thence to the DEC-20, the DEC-20 would crash every couple minutes. Why? When the VT100 was in smooth scrolling mode, it would send Xoffs and Xons at such a hellish rate, it crashed the DEC-20 front end, which was designed based on the statistics of people typing (i.e. 10cps per port). - Frank Article 5512 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!bonkers!not-for-mail From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.terminals,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: SMG vs. windows telnets Date: 27 Jul 1999 19:50:56 -0500 Organization: none Lines: 24 Message-ID: <7nlk5g$kvl@bonkers.taronga.com> References: <7n9rhi$26g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu> <7nalqp$5vm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <379E1C79.57D8@smarts.com> <7nl97b$neg$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bonkers.in.taronga.com Xref: news3.best.com comp.os.vms:130504 comp.terminals:7526 alt.sys.pdp10:5512 In article <7nl97b$neg$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >On a related nostalgic note: The VT100's smooth scrolling feature was >quite amazing to everyone when they first saw it, so much so that the >VT100 became quite the status symbol. As soon as we hooked a few of them >up to the campus "network" (a big serial port switch) and thence to the >DEC-20, the DEC-20 would crash every couple minutes. Why? When the >VT100 was in smooth scrolling mode, it would send Xoffs and Xons at such >a hellish rate, it crashed the DEC-20 front end, which was designed based >on the statistics of people typing (i.e. 10cps per port). At Berkeley the TERMCAP entry for the vt100 with smooth scroll had simply incredible delays for anything that did scrolling, so it avoided most of the really bad handshaking behaviour. I found that smooth scroll made it harder for me to eyegrep documents at 300 and 1200 baud... my point of view would "stick" to the scrolling text instead of scanning back and forth over the last line looking for keywords. -- This is The Reverend Peter da Silva's Boring Sig File - there are no references to Wolves, Kibo, Discordianism, or The Church of the Subgenius in this document Executive Vice President, Corporate Communications, Entropy Gradient Reversals. Article 3327 of alt.sys.pdp10: Path: nntp1.ba.best.com!inwap From: inwap@best.com (Joe Smith) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: VT100 keyboard Date: 29 Jan 2001 02:47:59 GMT Organization: Chez Inwap Lines: 68 Message-ID: <952lkv$27l8$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> References: <6ZC96.20807$lV5.338311@news2.giganews.com> <951ted$18ll$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> <3A743625.7DDD6C21@trailing-edge.com> <3A7489A7.9A247338@mail.bcpl.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 980736479 73384 206.184.139.134 (29 Jan 2001 02:47:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@best.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jan 2001 02:47:59 GMT Xref: nntp1.ba.best.com alt.sys.pdp10:3327 alt.folklore.computers:15484 >From: Ken McMonigal >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="------------4BC2E93C091716A01A54E674" > >--------------4BC2E93C091716A01A54E674 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... >--------------4BC2E93C091716A01A54E674 >Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > ... >--------------4BC2E93C091716A01A54E674-- Please don't post in HTML. In Netscape, go to Edit->Preferences->Mail&News->Formatting and select "Use the plain text editor to compose messages." In article <3A7489A7.9A247338@mail.bcpl.net>, Ken McMonigal wrote: > >I would like to now include Bob's post in this thread, seen elsewhere. > >> SU b1b2b3swap >> esc 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 - = \ push break >> Q W E R T Y U I O P [ ] rco <--rco means rub out or rub car out, >> ctl caps A S D F G H J K L ; return rwo <--rub word out >> ns shift Z C V B N M , . / shift \ >> space bar >> are keys that are missing. The above looks more like a modified VT100 keyboard, one set up for WPS-8 or some other Word Processing System. Differences between the above and a real VT100 keyboard: Top row is SET-UP, indicator lights, cursor-Up, cursor-Down, cursor-Left, cursor-Right, gap to numeric keypad, PF1, PF2, PF3, PF4. On 2nd row, to the right of "0" (zero) is hyphen/underscore, equal/plus, backtick/tilde, BACKSPACE, BREAK, gap, 7, 8, 9, minus. 3rd row starts with a TAB and ends with [/{, ]/}, top 1/3rd of RETURN and DELETE. Then a gap to numeric 4, 5, 6 and comma. On the 4th row, after "L" is ;/:, '/", 2/3rds of RETURN, backslash/vert-bar, gap, 1, 2, 3 and top half of ENTER. The 5th row ends witn comma/<, period/>, slash/question, double wide shift LINEFEED, gap, double wide 0, period and bottom half of ENTER. SETUP (4 LEDs) CU CD CL CR P1 P2 P3 P4 ESC 1/! 2/@ 3/# 4/$ 5/% 6/^ 7/& 8/* 9/( 0/) -/_ =/+ `/~ BS BRK 7 8 9 - TAB q/Q w/W e/E r/R t/T y/Y u/U i/I o/O p/P [/{ ]/} DEL 4 5 6 , CTL CL a/A s/S d/D f/F g/G h/H i/I j/J k/K l/L ;/: '/" RETURN /\| 1 2 3 E NS SHIFT z/Z x/X c/C v/V b/B n/N m/M ,/< ./> //? SHIFT LINEFEED 00 . E -Joe -- See http://www.inwap.com/ for PDP-10 and "ReBoot" pages. Article: 116099 of alt.folklore.computers Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: Paul Williams Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: VT-100 semantics Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:19:15 -0000 Organization: http://vt100.net Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Xnews/L5 X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 36 Xref: dfw-artgen alt.folklore.computers:116099 "George R. Gonzalez" wrote in news:eYlda.118680$3D1.4231@sccrnsc01: > Was there any document from DEC that truly specified what a VT-100 > did, including boundary conditions and out-of-range values? Here's an interesting post from Jerry Leichter from 1999, in which he says that DEC had an internal document that looked like the published VT102 documentation, but included fragments of Pascal that defined the behaviour in detail. I would like to see this document, but I've never even found a name for it. http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=379E1C79.57D8%40smarts.com As far as subsequent DEC terminals go, "VT100 compatible" actually means VT100 plus the Level 1 Editing Extension that was part of the VT102. Although this means that the VT102 User Guide is probably the best source of information for VT100 emulators (along with a real VT102 and vttest), I think that that manual has some mistakes. DEC's later terminals certainly don't follow the VT102 User Guide's description of the behaviour of Delete Character (DCH). The VT100 Technical Manual doesn't help in this area, which is a shame because the LA120 Technical Manual describes all seven states of that machine's escape sequence parser. I have written a document that tries to fill some of the holes in the available specifications by checking the behaviour of DEC's later terminals, but there is still a lot that could be written in this area. http://vt100.net/emu/dec_ansi_parser Warning: may cause drowsiness. - Paul Article: 116080 of alt.folklore.computers Path: iad-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!skynet.be!skynet.be!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!easynet-quince!easynet.net!news-peer.gradwell.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: VT-100 semantics References: From: Arthur Chance <{spamtrap}@qeng-ho.org> Organization: Rare Reply-To: Arthur Chance Date: 17 Mar 2003 16:33:14 +0000 Message-ID: <877kayt0l1.fsf@pooh.wired.qeng-ho.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) XEmacs/21.1 (Channel Islands) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Mar 2003 17:04:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.155.128.242 X-Trace: 1047920641 news.gradwell.net 66680 qeng-ho/217.155.128.242 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@gradwell.net Xref: dfw-artgen alt.folklore.computers:116080 jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes: > On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:36:42 GMT, George R. Gonzalez wrote: > >Was there any document from DEC that truly specified what a VT-100 did, > >including > >boundary conditions and out-of-range values? The OP may find http://vt100.net/ useful. > Good questions. IIRC, there's a program out there that exercised a VT-100 > (or possibly VT-220) emulation thoroughly, and would reveal just about any > incompatibility. I wish I could remmeber the name of the program, or where > it could be found, as I've got a need for it now... vttest. You'll find a link to it at the above URL or go directly to http://dickey.his.com/vttest/vttest.html -- 2, 3, 3 & 37: the Prime Factors of the Beast.